Stop Playing It Safe with Adam Schomer
Adam & me in Los Angeles last month
The universe is made of stories, not of atoms.
― Muriel Rukeyser
My guest this week is Adam Schomer, a documentary film and television director, writer, and producer, and the president of i2i Productions. Adam is probably most known for the Netflix documentary HEAL and is currently spearheading the global online summit for the film Fantastic Fungi.
Adam is also a dear friend and a personal inspiration to me. He’s a great example of how spirituality and the spiritual path can be lighthearted and fun, and authentic. As you can probably guess, we met in India.
In this episode we explore the role of fear and forgiveness on the spiritual path, utopian communities and the importance of community, giving people tools for living through the kind of elevated entertainment that Adam produces, the power of following your heart, how to build spiritual resilience, and much more.
Fantastic Fungi Global Summit October 15–17, 2021
Auroville & the Matrimandir Meditation Sphere
Comedy Sex God, by Pete Holmes
Business Sutra, by Devdutt Pattanaik
Topics
Freedom vs. fear
Aliens & archetypes
Why India?
Auroville & the geodesic meditation dome
Avoiding pitfalls on the spiritual path
Jealousy of others’ spiritual experiences
Buddhism and messy humanness
Why practice at all?
Spiritual path: hard or easy?
The Wisdom Revolution
Reaching more people
The importance of community
The need for medical gurus
The power of being authentic
How to stop playing it safe
Being vulnerable
Building a resilience muscle
What is yoga?
Show Transcript
Adam Schomer 0:00
Yeah, eventually we realize we're, we are whole and perfect and, and that we could have just sat back and accepted ourselves in a beautiful way. Right, but sometimes takes some work to get to that ability to do that.
Jayadev Woodford 0:13
Yeah, it's like, it's like to truly relax, you have to work hard.
Adam Schomer 0:21
It's like, like a sport. Sometimes you have to practice the skills so that when you're out in the field, it's effortless. Even though there's a ton of effort, the skills come automatically. Yeah, so freedom is inherent. But sometimes because of what we're born into, we need practices to help us remember what's natural. Yeah.
Alright, so I'm here with Adam Schomer. And Adam is an old friend of mine from India. He's a producer, writer, director, and yogi.
So yeah, so I appreciate you being on the podcast. Absolutely. You're one of my favorite people. longtime fan. Thank you. Yeah. So you're known for, among other things, The Highest Pass a documentary about an Indian yoga teacher. Right.
Adam Schomer 3:34
You could say I think it's really about facing death and fear.
Jayadev Woodford 3:37
Right, right. Yeah. It's about a bunch of people on motorcycles going over the highest pass in the world. True. Was that Ladakh?
Adam Schomer 3:44
It is up through Ladakh? Yeah, yeah. In northern India.
Jayadev Woodford 3:47
Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful documentary. Highly recommended. Thank you. early in your career, so very impressed.
Adam Schomer 3:54
Yeah. First film, hard, probably hardest ever. But first though.
Jayadev Woodford 3:58
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's impressive on many levels, but even just the fact that you got it is impressive.
Adam Schomer 4:04
Meaning that we got the footage and didn't die? That was what I was more impressive. Like, it's like first time producer, first time director and first time motorcycle rider which was the hardest, right? The motorcycling was the hardest because that's where you die. Right?
Jayadev Woodford 4:22
So you you fell right?
Adam Schomer 4:23
That was later. I'm sure I fell a couple of times like not hard falls just like early in the trip. I there's a drop of the bike. Like I went to pick up someone's sunglasses or something and forgot my bike was on. I guess. Rookie mistake riding motorcycles are dangerous when you don't know how to do it.
Jayadev Woodford 4:41
Right. Yeah, right. Right. Cuz at that point you've been riding for how long?
Adam Schomer 4:45
Two and a half weeks? Two and a half weeks? Yeah. Before going on. Probably a very treacherous ride. Yeah.
Jayadev Woodford 4:51
Okay. Highest pass and then you've also done like the One Little Pill, right? Yeah. And Heal, everyone probably knows that documentary. About how the body can heal itself. Right?
Adam Schomer 5:02
Yeah. empowering people to through our, through our emotions through our thoughts. Yes, yes, the body heals on its own, that we also have more, more a part to play in our healing than just taking orders from the doctor. It's not it's not pissing on the western medicine. It's saying let's integrate kind of like integrative medicine saying, let's look at it holistically as a Hey, our emotions have something to do with it. our thoughts, our visualization, our purpose in life. So we cover a lot of things in that film, and it's helped a lot of people very proud of that
Jayadev Woodford 5:31
one. Yeah, that's a beautiful film. Yeah. And then you have your own production company. Is that right? i2i Production. I thought, yeah. So what's the focus there?
Adam Schomer 5:39
The focus of the production company? Yeah. Great question. Um, you know, the tagline is uniting entertainment and wisdom, right. So I came from a comedy background, I came from story me in a narrative sense versus nonfiction. So I always wanted it to be entertaining. But I really felt that we needed the wisdom in our entertainment in order for it to like land home and actually change people, you know, rather than just be entertainment or drugs. Yeah, you know, eye candy, if you will.
Jayadev Woodford 6:08
Right. Right. I love that. Yeah. And it's important to though to make sure that the like, spiritual information or wisdom, it has an entertaining element to it too, right. Yeah, story.
Adam Schomer 6:17
So you can relate, right? One thing to hear like a, you know, a dharma talk. But it's another thing to watch people go through something and have story and then weave in that wisdom and say, I can empathize with that character. And thus, I can empathize with that wisdom, maybe landing in my life. Yeah, I think it's, this is how we've used story, you know, in the, in the past, yeah. Before now, right before advertising, right, per se. No offense to your advertisers on this. advertising is fine. But yeah, I mean, we should we can we can use story for for helping each other out. So
Jayadev Woodford 6:52
yeah, storytelling is so important. I mean, I've heard there was a quote somewhere I forget who said it. But, you know, universe is not made of atoms but of stories. That we don't know. I don't I forget. good story. Yeah. So we saw you and I met in India, I think, maybe four years ago. Because you were the first summit at Sattva. Right?
Adam Schomer 7:14
I don't know if I was I don't think so. Okay, maybe later. Maybe later. A couple years back three years back, maybe? I don't really doesn't matter. I know. We were united in San Francisco. Right.
Jayadev Woodford 7:23
Right. Yeah. We went to your showing of your your new show. Yeah, right. Well, it's not new now. But further down, wrote it arm. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 7:32
And then Didn't we go to when you were working at that point would have Airbnb or? Oh, yeah, I
Jayadev Woodford 7:35
met you for lunch. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Road to Dharma, which is a series…
Adam Schomer 7:42
So Highest Pass was the first film and then Road to Dharma was like, hey, let's, I want to do this again. But I want to do, you know, I want to focus more on the other riders rather than just my own journey and the guru, Anand, and really, with a series have more time, you know, to go into the wisdom to go into the characters, you know, 10 episodes, now you're talking what half hour episode, that's five hours to really dive deep into things. Whereas in a feature, you have a certain pacing, like I talked about that narrative pacing, entertainment value, got to keep to. So I really want to do as a series, a lot of people said, No, you're going to feature length stick to what you're good at. I'm like, No, this has to be a series. And so I did. And thus, you know, an independent series was born and, and even, of course, to go along with it, and a lot of other things. But in essence, you know, riding through the more on motorcycles to the Himalayas, to sacred sites, and, again, experiencing fear and death while looking for something that I think is dear to everybody, which is freedom.
Jayadev Woodford 8:39
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those two things are connected, right. Freedom and fear are basically two sides of the coin.
Adam Schomer 8:45
Thank you. They can be Yeah. How do you think so?
Jayadev Woodford 8:48
I think, you know, it's, it's only by transcending your fear or moving into it with intention that you can become truly free. Right. That's been a big part of my practice. Anyone else? Yeah.
Adam Schomer 9:01
I think Yeah, of course. Right?
Jayadev Woodford 9:04
What's your relationship to fear these days?
Adam Schomer 9:07
Yeah, “relationship to” is good is a really good question. My relationship to fear is that it can be a beacon of growth. So when you see it come up, it's not like, Hey, I'm not good enough. Why am I so afraid? No, it's like, oh, cool. I'm pushing the limit a bit. That's good. I'm afraid. I'm, I'm pushing myself to be courageous again. So that's good. I must be out of my comfort zone. This is all good. So my relationship to fear is that and then sometimes my relationship to fear is still then reacting to it and then having to look afterwards, go back and go, Oh, I see. I was afraid and that reaction came from that. So my relationship sometimes is 30 minutes later. And then recognizing what drove my actions. That was fear of loss or that was one thing reason like just feeling like the loss of something and watching the branch projecting the future And like, I'll plan this, maybe I'll do this this and then I was like, No, no, no, no, no, no, you're just feeling loss right now. Or the fear of loss of something really more, you know, let me feel that for a while.
Jayadev Woodford 10:11
Yeah. Do you have an example of a loss that you want to talk about?
Adam Schomer 10:14
Let's say like, even relationship, something's ending, right? And okay, maybe I'll say this to this person in the future, tomorrow, or this or reconcile a different way. It's like, No, actually just feel what's happening. It's changing, the relationship is changing, that part's done. And there comes fear with it of like, Oh, I'm not going to have this or this, this part of it anymore. That's where I think the fear is,
Jayadev Woodford 10:35
and the fear is partly to have sort of a fear of having to feel that feeling maybe is a part of it.
Adam Schomer 10:40
I think, I think inherently we have a feel a fear of having to feel that and the fear of like, maybe the addictive quality of not having the things you want all the time. And then when where am I going to get those things? You know, and you go, Whoa, well, before I take that fear and start planning, which I think a lot of us do, yeah, get the input of fear from society and then go plan to avoid it. Yeah. Why not just feel like, oh, things are changing. That's all that's happening. Yeah. Delta. Life is, life is changing. That's what happens. Yeah, you know, and go, Oh, the meaning things are always dying. And things are always rebirth. That is actually life. Right? versus avoiding that part. Right. going on. Let me for once, feel that thing called loss, right and not have to run from it.
Jayadev Woodford 11:31
Yeah, it's beautiful. What are we talking about two is a is getting comfortable with just feeling intense emotions, right. So it's that part of it?
Adam Schomer 11:39
I think is a permitted for me, meditation has been like the key to be able to do that. Yeah, it's made me a human that can feel something versus run away from feeling.
Jayadev Woodford 11:48
Yeah, yeah. I feel like learning to feel your feelings is such a huge part of the spiritual path. Yeah. I mean, I've spent entire, you know, meditation sessions just crying on the mat. You know, on the on the meditation cushion.
Adam Schomer 11:59
This is beautiful. Yeah. This is like, I mean, what's important to me on the spiritual path, because I know your listeners are spiritual, looking at spirituality. Right, right. Is that if it doesn't apply to the human being and our experience here on Earth, and like, what good is it? Yeah, anything, even a belief system? If it doesn't translate into how we live, I was talking to someone the other day that was like, I believe I'm an alien. I came from this planet. You're this this type of alien, this person's this type of alien this? And I'm like, okay, you know? And then I said, What's that do for you? Right?
Jayadev Woodford 12:34
You know, what's
Adam Schomer 12:36
that actually makes me feel like, I can actually love myself because these qualities of that alien are what I am. And I no longer have to think it's weird. Because I'm part of something. I'm
Jayadev Woodford 12:48
like, well, that's beautiful. That Yeah, it's like a form of self acceptance, self acceptance. And
Adam Schomer 12:51
if it means like, you feel you're an alien, or you feel you're a Christian, or you feel whatever, if that helps you feel more self love, and thus be more available to other. Alright, cool.
Jayadev Woodford 13:01
Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of, uh, I mean, in a sense, what you're talking about, it's just different kinds of archetypes. Right. And I feel like in the yoga tradition, we have the same model, basically, right? We've got the different deities, the gods and goddesses. Yeah. And you might identify with one and that helps you to accept yourself more or whatever. And if that's aliens, hey, you know,
Adam Schomer 13:19
I think it's a good way of saying it within a few days. Exactly. It helps remind you of parts of yourself. And I don't have to believe the story that this person cut that one's head off, and the toss came and did that. Right. That's a parable to help me understand something and don't have to believe it happened.
Jayadev Woodford 13:33
It didn't have to happen. Right? Didn't have, right. Yeah, and these are all just stories. Like I was saying the universe is made of stories.
Adam Schomer 13:41
We're done. The whole podcast figured it out. It's a wrap, but it takes seven minutes. The shortest podcast ever. I covered my cut, you know, a couple movies were good.
Jayadev Woodford 13:50
Yeah, perfect for my side project called “Spiritual But Not That Long.” Well, um, so this podcast is in large part about exploring the entire world of spirituality, you know, not just yoga, per se, let's say But yeah, but everything is open everything and, and exploring in a way that's like grounded and sort of clear eyed, you know, and accessible, you know, and so, with that, with that approach, you know, I like to hear how people have come to different practices or spirituality. So do you want to talk a little bit about your journey with with spirituality, share your story a little bit.
Adam Schomer 14:26
I'll do the quicker version, and then we can dive into a little areas are more important, but my first real jump into meditation was in college. I was 18. Is that right? Yeah. 18 and someone had a meditation tape. It was really body relaxation, and then just being with the breath. It was awesome. I think we smoked some weed and did it and I thought it was great. But as soon as someone said, I have this tape. I was like, Yes. So I was primed. I was ready. I don't know why I was so ready. Partly probably because in you know, science minded kid, but I did. mushrooms in later years of high school and maybe that helped open up but even before that, Deepak Chopra's book Ageless Body Timeless Mind for merging quantum physics and spirituality. And that worked for me as a science minded kid. And before that I had read Gandhi's autobiography, I believe, actually, in seventh grade, I picked it up and a lot of reading it early, early and was just like I can't you know, at night, I remember like, late into the night just kept going and going and going. And then I remember I, you know, I have neighbors that were Indian, I grew up with the smells and a lady that had overcome cancer without chemo and just, you look at these little things that might have been leading up and priming me at a young age, but I think I was also just intuitively or inherently would be a better word. Interested? Yeah. So when I was there, I just grabbed it. And then from college, kept exploring, you know, different books on meditation retreat here and there like one in Australia. It stayed stayed with me as a into my 20s Actually, I retired, I played pro soccer, kind of like Semi Pro soccer. And I retired around age 23 and went to Thailand for a month and just was in silence in Thailand. Yeah, took a Silent Retreat and was a monk monastery. Yeah, the Silent Retreat was 10 days, but I was at the monastery for about a
Jayadev Woodford 16:16
month. Was that possible? Or some other it was
Adam Schomer 16:18
for the most part, I wouldn't be a strict met Vipassana, per se. It was at the what? Buddha Dharma center. suta Tani, the south south of Thailand. Yeah. Really sweet. You know, you pay 20 bucks. Right. And it's food, lodging and teachings. Yeah, these people are, you know, just giving it right. These are just like, make it available. Yeah.
Jayadev Woodford 16:40
It's like an act of service for them. Yeah, absolutely.
Adam Schomer 16:42
It was really amazing. You went, you
Jayadev Woodford 16:44
went deep there. That was a good experience, amazing experience.
Adam Schomer 16:47
Amazing, amazing experience. I remember fighting it the first few days, like I should, I'm young, I should be out climbing rocks in the movie with DiCaprio, you know, whatever that was calling, or something. And then finally I'd settled in, I'm like, this is where I'm at. I'm doing this. I kept them silent. And I just really loved it. Yeah, this is good. So again, I think, you know, something in me is prime for this work. Whatever reason. And I stuck with it with my through my 20s is always part of my life. Even when I did improv comedy. I remember at Second City for a couple years in Detroit. They asked me, level three, literally level three, my level is the third level the class they go, Hey, why are you guys doing this? Why are you studying coming? People like I want to be on SNL. I want to be in this. I said, it's the yoga of comedy and people are what hippie what it looks like, No, it doesn't.
Jayadev Woodford 17:40
They said that you'll go comedy. That's what I use that okay.
Adam Schomer 17:42
Like, this is the yoga of comedy. So it's still in my life is around to age 27. I was really it was like, Oh, this comedy is about being in the moment. It is about being adaptable. You have an idea for a scene, but somebody else throw something in, you have to drop your idea, your idea dies, and then you move into the next idea, and you have to play. And I said, this is not only a fun thing to do, but it's an art that really teaches me how to live in the yogic sense.
Jayadev Woodford 18:04
Yeah, you have to be so present to be a good improv person. Right? Yeah, yeah. So
Adam Schomer 18:09
yeah, I don't want to practice things that aren't. They're taking me away from that. Right? It's part of why I stopped acting, because I found like an acting you are willfully going into the kind of the scars of character and playing those out. And I'm like, why am I memorizing other people's subconscious beliefs every day and acting them out? And I'm still working on mine. You know, right. So part of that after was like, I don't really want to do that anymore. And that's when that was actually my third time going to India where I decided drop acting, and really focus on writing and producing. And that's where that first film came from. Yeah, yeah. First documentary, the
Jayadev Woodford 18:48
highest posts. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. You know, and you're in good company. I mean, not to jump ahead too far. I think we'll probably come back to this at the end. But, uh, you know, having part of your experience start with mushrooms, psychedelics, you know, you've got Ram Dass, Pete Holmes, you know, everybody, it seems like a lot of people, they go into the spiritual path because of a psychedelic experience. You know, I think that's interesting. And we'll come back to that probably at the end.
Adam Schomer 19:13
Or maybe I went into psychedelics because I was looking for spirituality,
Jayadev Woodford 19:17
right. It's a little bit of both. Yeah, it opens you up. But you, you're already you're already kind of open to it.
Adam Schomer 19:23
I think. I think it's boy, it's like that helps, like, unlock a little something to get you out of the fixed patterns. And we were doing very recreationally not so therapeutic. Right. Right. I know it had an effect.
Jayadev Woodford 19:36
Right. Let's still Yeah, it still gives you that taste of like the transcendent experience. Right. I think he want more of that.
Adam Schomer 19:41
I think so. Yeah. Yeah, that was my experience, too. And then I mean, I quickly realized in college like oh, meditation compared with I would meditate I was in a frat for a little. A little while. Yeah. I would meditate for half hour and they would go to the next room where they were just smoking weed for half hour and a half. The different memo vibration. Yeah, my apologies anyone that's really into weed but it doesn't compare with the vibration that you get from meditating like it doesn't, right? And I said okay, that's very clear to me now. Like as a longer lifetime practice meditation is key and I pretty much had stopped smoking weed at that point anyway, so
Jayadev Woodford 20:18
yeah, more sustainable the went meditation. Yeah, yeah, actually reminds me you got Pete Holmes where he says, you know, when he before he got into meditation and all that he thought that like Buddhists, you know, especially in the mountains in Tibet, or whatever, we're just relaxing, like on vacation. You know? He didn't know until he got into it that they were like flying to space or whatever, right? Pete Holmes? The actor? Yeah, he's really into like Ram Dass and
Adam Schomer 20:41
Krishna Das concert, really? The guy from the couch.
Jayadev Woodford 20:46
His book, Comedy Sex God is highly recommended. I read it twice. Wow.
Okay, so that's so you, you are from a young age open to this stuff. Oh, yeah. And then what? How did you end up in India for the first time
Adam Schomer 21:26
acting coach here that I was with, she was taking people to India, and I didn't think I would go and then it just kind of hit me one day. I was like, Oh, my whole life has been India. You know, some of my best friends and the smells and everything I grew up with some of them. I got I gotta go. So I went. And that's where I was introduced to Anand. My name my guru call my guru somehow is a group trip is like 15 people, which was weird for me to go anywhere with 15. Really? Yeah, like, but I loved it. We just had a blast. And all the dharma talks were always around somebody like problem. Oh, yeah. I love that, like using an issue to kind of go back to like the Road to Dharma or any of these shows. To use somebody issue someone's story to bring out the wisdom to me, it was so much cooler than just a straight talk. Right? So we would do a lot of that, like, Adam, why are you so angry? Right? And I was like, because everyone's keep saying the chai is the best chai they've ever had. Like, how can it be always the best chai? Yesterday was the best chai. And now today's the best chai like you're all lying. Let's stop lying. Yeah, Anand’s just laughing like, Oh, here we go. Like we're gonna talk about this. Yeah. A spiritual bypassing this or saying this is the best thing and be like your anger at that. Like, just let them write them have that but don't have the experience. Yeah, even if they're kidding them. You don't need to go around to
Jayadev Woodford 22:43
changing that kind of dishonesty, so to speak is harmless, right? It's our best try ever. Who cares? Correct
Adam Schomer 22:49
is the best best sense that ever, you know, it's kind of like life was this was pre Instagram. We were instagramming to each other in life, right? This is the best child ever to swear. No. Bullshit. That's a filter on that.
Jayadev Woodford 23:02
That was what so much of that is about having that experience in that place. You know, it's so much more than just the chyron Yes,
Adam Schomer 23:08
that's true. wasn't the best wasn't the best.
Jayadev Woodford 23:13
Adam, the chai expert.
Adam Schomer 23:15
I'm still holding on. wasn't
Jayadev Woodford 23:18
wasn't a problem probably was where's the best chai? The one
Adam Schomer 23:21
I'm having right now? is the best guy ever. Dirty Chai. And it's fantastic.
Jayadev Woodford 23:27
Yeah, you know, I had had a similar experience. I mean, I my first time in India, I felt like I had come home. Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, as soon as I stepped into the streets, I was in Chennai. And there was like a festival happening on Monday night. And I was like, This is the energy here and everything the smells and the people. Yeah, there's no place like it. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 23:46
That's where you landed was Chennai. Yeah. Wow. interesting place. Why? Why there?
Jayadev Woodford 23:51
I wanted to go to Pondicherry. I wanted to check out Auroville. Yeah. And so yeah, that was kind of the entry point. I flew from Naples, Italy, to Chennai, India. Yeah. It was my Eat Pray trip. Sort of knocked out. But yeah, you know, and in hindsight. Yeah. And I yeah, I went and I went to Pondicherry and in Auroville. Yeah, I went to the geodesic dome, the meditation thing. Yeah. Powerful. I had to, at that point, the deepest meditation I've had in that in that dome. Really, it's like a spaceship. You know that thing. I have never been there and I've seen it but it really is. It's so powerful. They have a it's so there's two levels. The first level is literally like a spaceship carved out of like marble. You know, there's a console's and like printing lights and stuff, I don't know. And you go up this winding stairway into the top level. And it's an empty room. And there's a open I guess, circular opening in the ceiling with light shining down into this giant, like crystal orb. So like, the light kind of goes out into the room. And you just sit meditation isn't you know, it's silent. And yeah, I mean, at that point, I hadn't even had a great meditation practice, but I just dropped right in, you know. Interesting. Yeah. So I reckon And I mean, yeah, Auroville is interesting. What do you
Adam Schomer 25:03
what do you make of it now? Like in looking back? Is it still like did that place really have that for you? The community? What do you think was really eliciting?
Jayadev Woodford 25:12
I think it was, I think it was the structure of the community, the history, the tradition. I'm a huge fan of Aurobindo, you know, the founder. And I really appreciate and respect their attempt to create like a utopian society over there. I don't know if they can work, but it seems like they're making it work to some extent. And, you know, there was a weird like, I was picking up on a weird energy from the people a little bit in some cases, but uh, there was a lot of anger. Okay. From a lot of the like, Western people who are there. They their face on their faces anyways, they looked
Adam Schomer 25:40
at must be strange to see coming from New Yorker.
Jayadev Woodford 25:44
Well, yeah, it was nice. I was like, I feel like
Adam Schomer 25:49
this is perfect. We go meditate. We're fine with it.
Jayadev Woodford 25:55
But yeah, horrible. I recommend going at least once. Yeah, that's great.
Adam Schomer 25:58
I'm fascinated by communities. That's a whole nother topic. But just just people pushing the edge of like, what it means to live in community is really interesting.
Jayadev Woodford 26:07
Yeah, me too. Me too. And this desire to try to find create, like a, some kind of idealized like, Ito, almost utopian community? You know, I find that interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, I think I can go, we can go so wrong. We've seen this many times with like, wild, wild country or whatever, you know, but I think that's not a reason to give up on the spiritual path. For example,
Adam Schomer 26:29
that's for sure. Cuz I was gonna say, like, our current society has gone way, way wrong. Totally. So what's, what do you mean? Like, we should be trying other we should be trying? Yeah. Like, this has gone off the rails a little bit? Like, no, no offense to all of us. Right. But this is a little off the rails, you know, like, we can't be an extractive society for too much longer. Yeah.
Jayadev Woodford 26:52
Yeah. I mean, it's, there's a lot of challenges, you know, so going back to the sort of theme of my whole podcast, you know, it's, it's, um, it's trying to find that vein of gold, you know, within maybe a lot of dense rock, you know, and that's kind of that's kind of the entire the goal focus. And so I've been, you know, focused on thinking about a lot of the challenges that we face as a humanity, you know, right now, especially, obviously, there's a climate change is affecting us, and there's inequality and poverty and all these things. And so I personally think that spirituality can be, you know, instrumental and addressing a lot of that, you know, on a mass scale. And so, what I'm interested in exploring a little bit, too, is, you know, two things, how do you get spiritual practices to more people, so we can talk about that? Sure. And, you know, how do you avoid a lot of the pitfalls that seem to be like part of the past, you know, like spiritual ego, or, you know, these these, you know, maybe following like, a perverted guru, or, you know, all these different things that happen to people, you know, like, I'm curious, maybe we'll start there, like, what do you have any thoughts about how to, you know, stay kind of like focused or you know, to avoid these these pitfalls, like spiritual bypassing and all that stuff? Sure.
Adam Schomer 28:02
Forgiveness number one, because it'll happen to us all. So absolutely,
Jayadev Woodford 28:06
humanity. I mean, acknowledging people's humanity is so you show you
Adam Schomer 28:10
because we will go up and down I think right on it and this and if we can't forgive ourselves, and for what we've our path, you know, our failures, then we have no chance of then taking the next step into like, the man, we really are the woman we really are.
Jayadev Woodford 28:26
So forgiving yourself, but also other people is that Yeah, never I mean,
Adam Schomer 28:29
for sure yourself, for your own transgressions and your own, like, Oh, wait, you know, like, otherwise, you develop a spiritual ego, to protect the fact that you've failed and not want to own it, right? That's what I think goes on. Oh, I have an identity already as this, this newly created spiritual meme that now is afraid of losing that new identity that I think was stronger than the last one I had. And you gotta go, Well, no, you still need to own up to things you're doing incorrectly or people you've wronged or whatever relationships where I wasn't as honest as I should be, and could be in some way. You call yourself spiritual. It's like I am human too. Yes. I could have been more honest. Right? Yes, I agree with you. I've made mistakes. So I think taking responsibility is a big way to, and forgiving oneself and just being honest about where you've messed up is a good way to avoid the spiritual ego, if you will. That's
Jayadev Woodford 29:24
a good point. Yeah. Yeah. But forgiveness is not easier. I mean, especially forgiving other people. I my experience has been, it's, yeah, it's a it's a very complex kind of intense emotion that can be
Adam Schomer 29:36
Yeah, really, I guess. I like Michael Beckwith talks a lot about just releasing resentment first, rather than forgiving the person.
Jayadev Woodford 29:45
So it's a multi step process. Yeah, it's easier to let go of your resentment
Adam Schomer 29:49
of them than it is to quote unquote, forgive them because they're letting go the resentment has nothing to do with the actual act of what they did right or wrong, forgiving it but um, I don't want to hold on the resentment part anymore. Yeah, I don't want to hold the anger part anymore. Let's start there. Yeah, I remember just just five months ago, just saying I don't want to be angry anymore. And boom, then the tears came, okay, that the healing started the forgiveness started for another someone I had been in relationship with. I just had to say, I don't want to be angry anymore, which is I don't want to hold the resentment anymore. Yeah. Why did I want to hold it before? I don't know, probably because it helped me feel better about my position. Right. You know, it's nice to resent someone that I don't have to take on, again, the responsibility which we were just talking about,
Jayadev Woodford 30:33
there's a vulnerability to I think, like, if you're not, if you're forgiving somebody, you're opening yourself up in a very tender way, right to that person to being hurt or disappointed. You're having to acknowledge like the messiness of human relationships. Yeah, it's it's a lot. It can be a lot.
Adam Schomer 30:50
Yeah. It's not. Yeah, it's a good practice, right? It's a good way to avoid these other pitfalls, right. Forgiveness itself. The I mean, the other ones, you talked about perverted guru, so to speak, or I think the good way to watch out for that is just trust your intuition. Don't if you feel something's off, like honor that, you know,
Jayadev Woodford 31:12
yeah, but how do you know like, sometimes it can be hard to know. So So a big part of the spiritual process, as I'm sure you've experienced is sort of releasing, conditioning or releasing your own issues, right. And so how do you determine if something is your intuition? Like legitimately your intuition? Or you're triggered? And you think that's your intuition? Yeah,
Adam Schomer 31:36
practice, I guess. Yeah. And then forgiveness for yourself again, if if all right, I think that's my intuition, you make a step and you see after like, was it or was it just a trigger and but you got to start playing just like I have a compost outside and garden. Like, I'm stepping into it from the beginning saying this is learning process, not necessarily to make vegetables that are economically, right. Let me just learn so when I the first mistake I made, which is bought a compost that was totally wrong for the city. I had to just laugh how like, that was $150 mistake right off the bat. So maybe that's a good beginning.
Jayadev Woodford 32:11
Um, yes, that part where you're getting to is like this American tendency, I feel, to want to do everything the best and like to be a expert right away. And I think this is a lot of the things that get us into trouble in the spiritual path, right is like wanting to be like, Oh, I got to be, you know, a good Yogi or a good, whatever. And then that prevents you from acknowledging, maybe you know that you made a mistake, or that, you know, you're not that you're not perfect.
Adam Schomer 32:34
Yeah. Or like, you know, in this, I don't know, I mean, people talk about experiences on the spiritual path. And maybe people want that experience someone else's had or that Kundalini awakening, someone had level three, level four, whatever the means. And I've made a very concerted effort to not need to have my journey be like someone else's, yes. So I think that could be very helpful for people like, you don't have to have the Kundalini awakening to say your spiritual. In fact, you don't even have to practice any of this to be spiritual, right? You're kind human that helps another you're being spiritual, if spirituality is enacted in what you're doing as a human meaning, like if you're being kind and joyful and serving others, and that's an Act to me, that's an act of spirituality.
Jayadev Woodford 33:18
Absolutely. So let's not get so hung up on trying to have like a Kundalini awakening or whatever.
Adam Schomer 33:24
Okay, why is that the thing, right? A lot of people have had that are nuts. I mean, not nuts, meaning, like, still haven't found the wisdom, right? You can have you can go on the highest pass on a motorcycle and throw it all away. And not practice any of it doesn't just because I went over the highest road in the world on a motorcycle. And just because I plugged my own movies through conversation doesn't write. Very nice. Well done. Well done. Right? Doesn't mean I'm a pompous promoter, right? Or a self proclaimed genius, right? at times. I am. Right. So you have moments correct? your listeners that are following me know that I'm a genius. I have to say it. But she had last
Jayadev Woodford 34:02
year talking about, like, hardware you're talking about is this thing that Joe young Trungpa says, which is a lot of people on a spiritual path. They like to collect experiences almost like you're collecting statues in India, you know, like, Oh, my God, well, I have all these I have this collection now I have this library now. And that means that I'm level whatever, you know, or Yeah, and it's like all its attachment to some kind of identity, the spiritual identity.
Adam Schomer 34:26
Yeah. Because I mean, you've been at a software right and you already and you've seen people have probably Kundalini awakenings and body thriving and moving and crazy. Just because your experience isn't like that. Like who's to say that's the right way like yours might be a slower birthing things that you're maybe more grounded in it and who knows, because that's what you're meant to kind of be? Well, that's
Jayadev Woodford 34:50
what I've noticed, too, is that everybody, everybody has their own very unique expression of like Kundalini rising or or, you know, whatever that energy is, you know, it might come out and One person that is their body moving or, you know, whatever it is, but yours might be more subtle or more deep. You know, you don't you never know. You don't know what another person's experiences.
Adam Schomer 35:09
Oh, no, you don't know why better or worse? Yeah. So that's a way you know, to, to avoid some of the spiritual ego and some of the trap of even following a guru. If you're still striving in that American way to get somewhere you might not listen to your intuition, because of this drive to get to this utopia or place spirituality, you think that things no longer suffering? Is there? No, it's all still there. We still feel the feelings like it's not going away the Buddha, you know, I say this, like, what he wasn't saying emptiness like, right, empty. The Buddhists aren't really saying like, sensations, the problem, even though if you got rid of sensation, it would cut off some of the suffering. It's not the issue. I have a lot of discussions with like the hardcore of apostle. I'm like, it's not the problem. Yeah, it's there's other places in the wheel, where you can cut off the suffering, meaning your attachment to it, you can be with it all like you. I'm an inclusive person, like, let me feel the feelings in life. Let me smell the smells. Let me feel my body. It's got to be expansive, not empty. So empty, empty, empty of separation is how the Buddha that that's what the Buddha was really saying. Okay. Thank you for Yeah, you find that with the Buddha was really not empty, empty of separation. Yeah. That's not me teaching that I
Jayadev Woodford 36:27
said that. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, you what you're talking about, though, is, I think this misconception in the spirit, being spiritual is being like, enlightened and being of light. But actually, it's, it's about being more human and being more like, accept in the body and messy and it's everything right? It's, yeah, it's not just inclusive. Yeah, it's inclusive. It's the whole experience. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 36:47
Expected, it has to include, right. So it can include that and it doesn't mean enough to be too attached to that part. Right. Right. And going through a tough time, right? You're allowed to go through a tough time as a spiritual person, you're allowed to have what you know what I mean, you're allowed to, like, have months of quote, unquote, not a good practice or whatever, you know, I can, or not meditating for two months, you're allowed to do, right? and observe and not just be too attached to like, what you thought you were or we're supposed to be you're allowed to
Jayadev Woodford 37:19
write because there's no hurry to be somewhere else.
Adam Schomer 37:21
I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, talk to me not tomorrow. On Monday, on the real Monday, the real Monday when all the emails are flying. I feel that way. Yeah. God feels that way in the society. Yeah, it really does.
Jayadev Woodford 37:34
Yeah. Because we're already I mean, from a spiritual standpoint, we're already sort of perfect right now in this moment, right.
Adam Schomer 37:39
Yeah, I think I'd say so. Yeah. I mean, you look great. Thanks.
Jayadev Woodford 38:11
Okay, so if we're already perfect, or our you know, we're already spiritually sort of like, pole. Let's say that. You know, why? Why practice? I don't know. Yeah. Because it's fun.
Adam Schomer 38:24
No, I mean, I think on some level, there's a, like, I was called as a kid didn't want to read Gandhi's book or to meditate. Like, I think we all seek more liberation. Yeah. We seek to unravel a little bit more. Right.
Jayadev Woodford 38:38
So you could say that life has like the seed of evolution inside of it. Is that one way to look?
Adam Schomer 38:44
Absolutely. Well said. So it's not so much like, I know why. Or to get something. It's just this is living is this. This is like, evolving, if you want to call evolving has to do with kind of open up you study a lot, right? You love going to grad school? Yeah. All the
Jayadev Woodford 39:01
time. I'm going to do grad school twice. Yeah,
Adam Schomer 39:03
twice. That's amazing. So it's like, Why? Because you know, you want to learn the use of learning. You love learning? Yeah, that's probably why you're doing this podcast. Absolutely. You'd like I love learning. I love the idea of freedom. A lot of my films tend to be around free, right? Why is that? I don't know. Just, you know, maybe past lives who the heck knows. But I know we all want freedom. I mean, look at the political society and how it's grown for 2000 years how we've edged closer toward freedom, right? True freedom, true freedom, true freedom on an inner sense, but also political freedom. Yeah, I call it that. And why is it that we do that? I think inherently that's how we want to be and how we want to express so yeah, eventually we realize where we are whole and perfect and, and that we could have just sat back and accepted ourselves in a beautiful way right, but sometimes takes some work to get to that ability to do that.
Jayadev Woodford 40:01
Yeah, it's like, it's like to truly relax, you have to work hard.
Adam Schomer 40:09
It's like, like a sport. Sometimes you have to practice the skills so that when you're out in the field, it's effortless. Even though there's a ton of effort, right, the skills come automatically. Yeah. So freedom is inherent. But sometimes because of what we're born into, we need practices to help us remember what's natural. Yeah, I think that's right. What's going on?
Jayadev Woodford 40:29
I think annonces something about, you know, choo, choo effortlessness comes out of effort.
Adam Schomer 40:37
As an app issue.
Jayadev Woodford 40:40
Like one, yeah,
Adam Schomer 40:41
I'm on here. You're the problem. How many times have I been upset at my guru? Oh, yeah.
Jayadev Woodford 40:46
It's definitely a dance. It's great. It's great.
Adam Schomer 40:49
Ah, he just sits back and was like, I'll meditate for two hours just on a trigger. And then like, you know, see him later in the afternoon. He used the same the whole time doesn't care if you're triggered him?
Jayadev Woodford 40:59
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm still in a trigger right now. No problem. No problem.
Adam Schomer 41:04
It could take 10 years right now. Welcome back.
Jayadev Woodford 41:06
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think but but another reason to practice maybe is you're reducing your own suffering, hopefully. Yes. Yes. Over time, and then maybe as a result, reducing the suffering of people around you.
Adam Schomer 41:19
It's a beautiful intention. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. What could be better than that? Yeah. Okay.
Jayadev Woodford 41:24
They resolved it.
Adam Schomer 41:25
Again, why take an hour? Right. Do what we could do. In 35 minutes. Yeah. I mean,
Jayadev Woodford 41:33
but do you think I mean, I ask you this, though. Do you think the spiritual path is hard or easy? Or is that a false dichotomy?
Adam Schomer 41:40
Um, I think it's hard to not be on a spiritual path.
Jayadev Woodford 41:45
It's harder. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 41:46
Meaning, like, living these in this society time. Without spirituality. To me, we've seen like, incredibly hard. Yeah. Without those skills. So let's just call spirituality like skills and tools that help us maneuver. This dance of like being in the physical body. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's a new definition. I just made up spiritual. Alright, we'll go with that. If that's the case, like, how do you not use have spirituality in this life? Like, it makes it really hard? I mean, how is that person over there dealing with disappointment? If they don't have a practice? They're probably not
Jayadev Woodford 42:25
right. They're avoiding feeling it probably right now meeting or something
Adam Schomer 42:29
drinking? Who knows you're acting out with someone else right in relationship that they actually want. Boom, projecting. Yeah, crew, it's a map crash boom. Right. So I think life is really hard without tools. It's a shame that we haven't had a lot of the tools baked into society. But that's why I think what you're talking about in spirituality is growing in leaps and bounds because people want tools for living.
Jayadev Woodford 42:54
Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. So Peter Russell has this concept. There was a revolution, he thinks that we're entering into almost like a new revolutionary period of human development. We had the Industrial Revolution, we had the information age, he thinks there's a wisdom revolution coming that's as transformational is for humanity, as those two were. And I like that idea. You know, I think it's coming. And it's very early, maybe it's not evenly distributed, so to speak. And so I'm curious, maybe we can talk about this, then. How do we get spiritual practices to more people, you know, how do you reach more people?
Adam Schomer 43:28
Yeah, that was your earlier question. I mean, for me, I you story. Yeah. That's like my method for whatever reason like that. It's like, Oh, cool. I can make movies, documentaries, documentaries, specifically, because this isn't fiction. These are real human going through life, I think is a great way to blend in teaching spirituality. To show others that it's possible, some possibility, and how do you show possibility? Through film, that's a medium that everyone loves right now, film series documentary, I mean, Buddha Dharma Sangha, right, Buddha meaning the possibility of enlightenment or the possibility of freedom. So showing the Buddha you know, showing that it's possible through other characters in the show, Dharma Oh, and having the teachings in their Sangha Oh, okay. That the other way I think would be having people around Sangha people that share this stuff. So if we want to share it more if we want to accelerate it, so to speak, you know, for me, like I said, film and such, but I think these taking myself out of the equation, I think the actual bigger bigger thing would be community, because we have access to the internet, we have the teachings, the pre accessible for people now, the apps and this but community, we need people around us that are speaking the same language that are supporting our practice that can hold space for us when we're dicks and and
Jayadev Woodford 44:56
it's a reinforce that honestly, you were talking about earlier. Right? Yeah, to keep you honest.
Adam Schomer 45:00
Yeah, keep you honest. Let you be honest, you know? I mean, you can be honest anyway. But
Jayadev Woodford 45:05
yeah, this is this is a big part of what I love about your work is that you're reaching so many people through this medium. So it's powerful through
Adam Schomer 45:12
film and such. Yeah, yeah, I think it is powerful. I mean, he'll has a very good example of a lot of people that respond and say, I got sick, and I watched your movie, and I saw possibility, right? What's my diagnosis? I didn't have to go into the prognosis they gave me I saw a possibility for some other outcome with my illness. And another way to go about it. And that's all sometimes people need is possibility. And then seeing maybe there's a Facebook group and there's other people going, sure, okay, cool. Or wrote the Dharma like, they're, they're opened up to like, oh, there's other people being courageous and seeking freedom amidst craziness of India putting their life on the line, because this is important to them. No, I'm not alone. Oh, that's cool. That's helpful. Yeah. really helpful when you know, you're not alone with like, these crazy thoughts, so to speak on this crazy desire to want something different in our lives?
Jayadev Woodford 45:58
Yeah, I think Yeah. Do you hear from a lot of people that have seen those films? You know, what do they say
Adam Schomer 46:03
tonight? Yeah, with the rota Dharma, it's cool, because the course that's along with it, like people dive deep. Yeah, of course, it probably even the wrong word. It's kind of like this immersive experience, because there's meditations and chapters in the episodes. People that really do that. They make changes in their life. They get inspired by it. This is Yeah, they were ready. It's kind of like me when I was going to college and someone said, here's a meditation tape. Like, I was like, yeah, people that do that they were ready for it. Anyway. I don't take credit that like oh, our thing opened them up. They were totally ready. And then you put something in front of them that speaking their language. They go sweet. You just that's what I've been feeling. Yeah. And oh, now I know. It's okay. I guess to leap.
Jayadev Woodford 46:47
Yeah, your films are like, when's the first time you go skydiving? The film is like the guy who's hugging you. As you're falling. That's great. tandem tandem.
Adam Schomer 46:55
Yeah. But tandem guide to spirituality. Yeah, you don't feel like Yeah. Oh, they've done it before. They didn't die. Right. Crazy or something? Yeah. And they take me with them. Right. Cool. And then the next time like, I'll go alone, now I'm gonna move to Vancouver. Someone like I watched it. I moved van. I really like oh, yeah, I guess that's what you're Yeah, he did. What was in Vancouver? for them. They just needed to get somewhere that was more West. I think the mindset they were in go west, you know, to maybe a more liberal mindset or whatever meant to them. Yeah, I forget.
Jayadev Woodford 47:29
Vancouver's pretty spiritual to it. I think so it feels like community there. I think I would think so. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 47:33
And the mountains and nature based. So yeah. And then with heal, you hear a lot when it comes to illness, and people having possibility. And I do a meditation on heal Instagram, every Wednesday, and so some people right into that, like, I watched the movie, I do Adams meditations because they're igtv, I went and got these books. And so we've created a little more resources where people can have a little bit of community and a little bit of grounding and be on a path. But then I have to say the illness. path is a tough one. Yeah, and one thing we're probably lacking more than anything in that area is like a general practitioner point person to kind of handhold you on your path. The the medical guru, yeah, that would walk with you in spirituality. We have a lot of gurus and teachers that are walk with you along the path. Not so much in the health. There's a lot of like modalities that people are great at, but who's like the point person in the middle that says, Let me help you find the right ones and take you along? that's a that's a missing piece in health care.
Jayadev Woodford 48:34
Yeah, yeah. I feel like health care and education are two places where we can use a lot more integration, a lot more spiritual sort of influence. You know, and I see it happening with certain people I know, like nurses, a few doctors, some educators, but yeah, I feel I hope that that will continue to grow.
Adam Schomer 48:48
I think so.
Jayadev Woodford 48:50
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. I mean, yeah, I think right now, I feel like we got to find more ways to reach people. And you know, and yet, like you're saying to make these practices, like, more digestible, more accessible, like, you know, bite size baby steps, you know, it's not doesn't have to be flying to India, or you know, doing it a possum or whatever you can, you know, you can just tune it Instagram or whatever. I mean, that sounds great, too.
Adam Schomer 49:13
Yeah, but you don't have to exactly yeah, seeing something. Um, yeah, I think more accessible through films and then can't like just having people around you. So how do you do that? Like, how do you make sure that there's other people around I guess, you if you're someone listening, that has a practice. Don't be afraid to maybe open your door? Yeah. And say you guys want to meditate together or do something for free or I don't be out of the closet with it. Mm hmm. I meditate. Yeah. You know, I know guys that had a Kundalini experience 25 years ago, didn't tell their family would go in the basement and meditate New Yorkers, right? Yeah. These were New Yorkers like Brooklyn guys that were like I had this Kundalini experience. 25 years ago, I would meditate in my basement Yeah, you're like, it's totally normal. Like, it's fine. But like, for that family wasn't. So be be open with and tell people about it like you're not gonna get scorned.
Jayadev Woodford 50:10
Right and the courage. I mean, there is, maybe it sounds a little funny, but there's courage and coming out that way, especially, you know if you're from Brooklyn or whatever. Yeah. And then that I think that inspires people. I think people will see that and they'll think, oh, that you know, then I can do that. Right. You know, it's not strange or
Adam Schomer 50:26
what? Don't you make a big deal? Yeah, I
Jayadev Woodford 50:29
meditate. Of course, of course, of course. Doesn't everybody?
Adam Schomer 50:32
I inquire about myself. I'm interested in freedom. What? Who? Wouldn't? I have a job and a family? Right. It's part of life. Yeah, this is what we do. Right. Make it? normalize it in some way. Yeah, I think that that would help.
Jayadev Woodford 50:45
I mean, I've had that experience. I felt like, at some point, I had to sort of almost come out and say, Hey, you know, I'm spiritual. You know, it's kind of funny. Yeah. I mean, I'm not to, I don't mean to, you know, to minimize the coming out process for, you know, for homosexuals or other other people, you know, trans and all that. I mean, that's obviously a whole other level, but, but still, I think there's like a stigma. And that's part of the motivation of this podcast is like, overcoming that stigma,
Adam Schomer 51:11
right? It's not ridiculous, right? Right. Yeah, yeah, there's the stigma of it's ridiculous, right? But some of it is
Jayadev Woodford 51:18
cuz you're gonna lose touch, you're gonna become escapist, you're gonna be like, you know, woowoo or whatever, you know,
Adam Schomer 51:23
there is a fear of that like, like, even if you do a psychedelic, or if you go off to India, that you won't be able to when you come back, have a lot of people I think it's a genuine fear. Right. Right, then right, I'll lose grounding.
Jayadev Woodford 51:36
Right? Uh, maybe you should usually. I mean, it's interesting, because I feel like they're, you're touching on a little bit of attention. That is tricky, because I feel like part of the process of overcoming our sort of capitalist industrial kind of lifestyle, that's, you know, destroying the planet is for more people to say, like, Well, wait, maybe I'm gonna check out our society. You know, I think that could be positive, too. So there's a little bit of a tension there. Maybe?
Adam Schomer 52:03
Yes. within us? I think so. Yeah. And I mean, my experience of spirituality has made me more grounded.
Jayadev Woodford 52:10
Yeah. And hopefully it should obviously not practicing properly. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 52:15
But I understand people's fears too, because there's so much ridiculous. People that go have an experience and come back and think they're enlightened. And like you said, the spiritual ego is abound, and you don't want to be one of those. Or if you want to be a yoga teacher, right? You know, that was a fun story. Cuz I'm training there with a non one on one for a six, seven weeks and just meditating with him by the river every morning, and we're talking and I'm recording and writing it down. And then one day says, Hey, will you teach my, my own class? I'm supposed to teach some people today. I'm like a non I don't want to be a yoga teacher. I mean, it's too cliche. I mean, la um, you know, I do act in your writing. And I don't want to be yoga teacher, all the ego. I just don't want to be that right. He's like, I'm not asking you to be a yoga teacher and just saying what you teach my class. Then you that's the cool thing. Like he's very simple like that. Right? You're getting in your head, man. Right? I just said what you do this for me? Like a favor.
Jayadev Woodford 53:11
Yeah. That's when having a teacher can help. They can kind of, you know, call you out on things and simplify things for you. Yeah, like I remember rides me of one time I was there. We were all doing this river run. He likes to do this thing. Yeah, run in the river up in the Himalayas. It's pretty, it can be pretty hairy. I mean, it's, you know, you're running on these slippery rocks. And it's like, it's the mountain. And so the first time I was going, you know, we were all getting ready. And, and I was asking him all these questions, you know, is a dangerous I'm gonna fall if you've gotten her it, you know? And he was like, just go on the run.
Adam Schomer 53:44
No, I know. I have a little experience that because when we just went to the beach, right, alright, should I bring it up? Right? Do I need my glasses? Should I bring my phone? For me? It was a little weird because I go to the beach every day. And I have my my my thing. Right? Yours an inquiry. you inquire.
Jayadev Woodford 53:57
I inquire. And you know, I'm a little bit my head in my head sometimes
Adam Schomer 54:00
trying to join the club. Right? He also he called me out on that. And he's like, just something my class my Okay, you know, and then I stopped the class. He's like, how was it? Michael? I really liked it. Okay, teach my next one. Yeah, I thought I thought you might, you know, why don't you teach? You know, and so that, so that I thought, yeah,
Jayadev Woodford 54:19
that's another huge benefit of having a teacher or they can really see you is they can see the potential in you that you can't see. Right? Yes. And that was my experience, especially with him. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 54:28
Was he seeing any? You know, I showed
Jayadev Woodford 54:30
up? Is he seeing Boise See, what could he have seen me? Oh, my God. What was he saying? You know, I showed up. I think I've talked about this before, but I showed up like, I'm expecting to do one job, which was work on technology and the website and all these things. And then there was a kind of a change of plans and I was going to be teaching in the trainings, you know, and great, great opportunity. But you know, at the time I was thinking, I don't know if I'm ready for that, you know, I mean, At that point, I had done a bunch of trainings and everything. But, uh, I've been teaching for years. But still, you know, and, you know, but I saw that he knew on some level that I could and so that gave me the confidence. And then I found out that I could, you know, I think, Yeah,
Adam Schomer 55:15
I think so too. I think we create all these like our YT this and that, once I have this, that I can especially again, you love grad school, and you're used to getting this before you go to that, right. And another friend of mine is feeling the same people won't take you seriously until you have XYZ. And I'm like, I don't know, why don't you just go do the thing before you have to be legitimate mised in front of the quote, unquote, peers. And that brings me back to the whole, like, coming out of the closet thing, which friends of mine that are very successful filmmakers, Doc filmmakers would say to me, they're like, I admire, like, you're just so free that you make this kind of content. Right? I'm like, what kind of content like, like, you know, spiritual stuff. I'm like, I just make what I like to make. Yeah, you know, that like, and I go, where I'm kind of drawn and in the project. And I don't think twice about the fact that it's like spiritual as if I'm in some, like, kind of subset of it, where it's taboo. And they being like, Academy nominated. People couldn't come out to their friends that they wanted, that they made spiritual films or wanted to, or were spiritual. I'm like, Really? I didn't realize there was that stigma in Hollywood, that somehow you're not as legit. You know, like, will cnn still hire me to do right to do their work? Also, if I also did a spiritual film, I'm like, you really worry about that. I was blown away. Like you're nominated for an Academy Award. Like,
Jayadev Woodford 56:50
that's a pretty nice calling card. Yeah, that's, that's a level of power to Yeah, like some level,
Adam Schomer 56:55
you think that having done a spiritual film takes that away? Suddenly, that's the weird fear of like, oh, I'll become ridiculous.
Jayadev Woodford 57:01
Right. Right. And I feel like you're touching on maybe, like, the most important thing in a way. What is this? Yeah, only 45 minutes later? No, I I do feel like there's a way in which not just in Hollywood, but in like business and industry, everything. People have a thing they want to do, or they they want to be more authentic and more true to themselves, but they don't because of a fear of being judged, or they're gonna lose an opportunity. And I feel like if everyone would just do the thing that they want to do, like, just forget about the repercussions forget about what people think the whole world would change, you know? Yeah,
Adam Schomer 57:40
cuz there's probably more people that want to do that, then totally. We think everyone else is some thing else. Yeah, it's everyone's hiding behind the curtains.
Jayadev Woodford 57:48
Yeah, everyone's playing it safe. And we got to stop playing. Yeah, that's how I
Adam Schomer 57:53
feel. Be open with the projects you want to do. Right? Yeah, get a spiritual film. So what Yeah, it's great. Every film is spiritual and technical. That's the thing. I kind of bring the ridiculous out of right. What do you mean spiritually mean? Because it had meaning and inspired people. And it wasn't so driven on the same old archetypes of the prince get to the princess. Yeah, I know, hollywood likes to like repeat itself and do what works so that I can turn out money I get Sure. Okay, it's gonna do that. But you can go over here and do ones that are different. Right? And oh, but Will I lose this thing? Right. Hopefully you will, to be honest.
Jayadev Woodford 58:29
Maybe we'll have fewer sequels. Yeah, remakes. Yeah, if we could do this first.
Adam Schomer 58:33
Yeah, I would jump out. Like you said, like, if everyone showed their cards, right. Wait a second. We all want to make some cool stuff.
Jayadev Woodford 58:41
I think it would change the world would change the world. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 58:44
Maybe there's that fear of if we all go start making good things than these than everyone else gonna laugh them. Keep making the other stuff, crush it in the economy, right areas, right, this weird fear of like, being outside that everyone will laugh at you. Everyone will laugh at you. And the whole world won't change.
Jayadev Woodford 59:05
Right. Right. Like, you'll be the only one and then you'll Yeah, totally. Right. I felt that way. We've all felt that way. Probably at some point. Yeah. Yeah. And what about the GDP? You know, what's gonna happen to that?
Adam Schomer 59:16
I don't know, man. I'm not sure. You mean, the gross the ghp ghp gross happiness product might go up? Yeah. So that's what you know, that's the longest answer to like, what can we do? Yeah, I love it to spread and help each other is like to be more open about it. whatever profession you're in, like, talk about it, integrate it,
Jayadev Woodford 59:38
right where your mala beads to the office, you know,
Adam Schomer 59:42
do it. Or if you don't want to be so ridiculous, if that's ridiculous, at least. Why not let people know like, what you're going through in life, or that you are maybe meditating or you're trying to become a better person or that you'd like to How can we make this business actually more sustainable? Or like just even like within our business? How do we treat our employees better? Like, could we have a conscious you? I kind of want my company be more nice. I don't know, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. It's okay to have those thoughts. Yeah, that you know what, I don't know if profit is the most important thing anymore, right, which is blasphemy. And a lot of it's blasphemy right to say, What if we didn't put that first and said, Maybe we should pay people more or just not going a different way of doing it?
Jayadev Woodford 1:00:32
Yeah, yeah, this reminds me of. Lately, I've been reading a lot of this author dubbed Patnaik, who's an Indian scholar, and businessman, and he has all these books that are beautiful about the Indian approach to business. And it's like, he has this model where you treat every business interaction, like a yoga, you know, like a fire ceremony. And so you're imagining that you're sort of like making an offering into the fire, which is your business and whatever you're offering into the business world. And then, as a result, you're getting back, you know, some kind of compensation, you know, is this more, you know, he kind of breaks down the way that the entire world is structured around this sort of European approach to business. And if we had more of an Indian approach to business, maybe what you're talking about, you know, elevating human values, you know, putting other things about profit, you know, would be more popular.
Adam Schomer 1:01:20
So he's saying make, like, make your business an offering, so to speak,
Jayadev Woodford 1:01:23
kind of, yeah, or your approach to your like, what you're doing in your business is like an offering, and you're making an offering to somebody and then the person on the other side of that transaction. It just has the same approach. And so then it becomes more like, an elevated like, sort of spiritual type of Baba, you know, sweet. Yeah. So anyway, so I've been reading a lot lately. That's on my mind.
Adam Schomer 1:01:43
You like to learn, I like to learn? And what's my, what's my offering in this podcast now offering people?
Jayadev Woodford 1:01:48
Yeah, you're offering your wisdom?
Adam Schomer 1:01:49
I hope so. The experience, maybe possibility, maybe a little bit inspiration?
Jayadev Woodford 1:01:53
Yeah. Like if you can do it like anybody,
Adam Schomer 1:01:55
I guess what I would say, is given Detroit, Michigan, right, Midwestern kid? Absolutely. I didn't study film. Yeah, I was a science based kid. You know, I didn't have a plan for life. I just kept making a few decisions. And I continue to do so that like, aligned with like, my heart, I didn't want to get a job after college. And it's not because I had money. This is like I could do it. Like, I couldn't go to the JP Morgan's and blah, blah, blah. I was just like, I followed my heart and it helped me Help me like just have a strength and a trust, that there's other ways to make a life. And my my, my nephew kind of summed that up because he just went to college. And he's a very, like, emotionally, like, intellectual or emotionally mature kid for his age, I think, cuz I'm like, I didn't really talk like that. When I was your age, you know, I was still drinking and doing trash.
Jayadev Woodford 1:02:47
That's it. That's the new generation. I
Adam Schomer 1:02:48
think it is. They've grown up with more yoga, in their vernacular and uncles and stuff that go to India, right. I didn't have the uncle that went to India. But he said, like, I have a very three different uncles, me and my brother, he's like, you, you make movies in LA and go to India and all this. My, my other brother does, like mortgages and very successful. And as a family. In Michigan, my other brother just kind of does what he wants and like, not really at all thinking about career, this is just more kind of, of service where it needs to be it's just a totally different form of life, most people wouldn't understand. He's like, I have really, it showed me a lot of different models of living. That is not the way America puts it. Right. You can live life a lot of ways. I'm like, that's really cool to have that growing up. Yeah. And to know that, like, just, you'll do what's your your way?
Jayadev Woodford 1:03:39
Yeah. What's great to hear, too, it sounds like what you're saying is, if you just follow your heart, things will work out.
Adam Schomer 1:03:44
I don't know if I said that.
Jayadev Woodford 1:03:47
That's gonna be the quote on the cover.
Adam Schomer 1:03:48
Things don't always work out. You follow your heart?
Jayadev Woodford 1:03:52
What does it mean to work out anyway?
Adam Schomer 1:03:53
That's what I mean. Yeah, people like but it didn't work out.
Jayadev Woodford 1:03:56
He said, Well, you didn't die so far.
Adam Schomer 1:04:00
We're all gonna die. So Chad, I don't know what you're implying. But I'm gonna be immortal. Because I followed by, meaning that I'm there the benefit of even like, following your heart just starts to help you in habit, a, a being of faith, a being of trust, and a being of more in flow with the mystery of things rather than I'm gonna like, you know, do what's expected or what I'm afraid of, so to speak. So to me working out isn't the end goal to be working out is like that, oh, I've built a muscle of being able to kind of keep stepping in doesn't mean like my bank account full. Right? I know what I mean, like or that I've achieved some success or not, because four years ago, I was totally broke. And so what would you say didn't work out for me? Right? No, because at that moment, I'm like, you love yourself regardless of like, your knee is broken. You have nothing in your bank account. You just broke up with somebody, you have no place to live. And I'm like, this is where you practice dude. This is where you just totally love yourself and are Happy for no reason. Yeah, this is where you do it, you know? Yeah, it's quote unquote not working out. That to me is more like what you get from follow your heart. Yes, you get that?
Jayadev Woodford 1:05:10
Yes. You build a muscle you build a muscle. Yeah, it's it's kind of like you start to have the experience that Krishna is teaching Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, which is that no experience is too big for your soul to handle.
Adam Schomer 1:05:21
That's wonderful. Yeah. So I'm, I'm in in with those guys. Yeah, you're
Jayadev Woodford 1:05:25
right there on that same level with Krishna.
Adam Schomer 1:05:27
Would you say I was ending with earlier? Didn't you put me in? Listen? Did I forget? That was great. It felt really nice.
Jayadev Woodford 1:05:36
Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's beautiful. Alan Watts was one of those guys. Ronda Rousey. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I mean, I love this reminds me of this quote to have. You know, Terence McKenna. Right? I do. Yeah. He said that if you jump into the abyss, yeah, you'll land on a feather bed. I just like the way he didn't.
Adam Schomer 1:06:00
He also said that mushrooms are aliens. Yes, he was very much into that. I love that. When I read that I read one of his books early on. I thought that was so cool. Because intelligence travels in the spores through space. And that, like you ingest these mushrooms, and like you have communication, so what's to say? Like alien intelligence couldn't? Right speak through a food? Right? And chemical interaction? That's, I love that.
Jayadev Woodford 1:06:24
Yeah. Well, that is all you know, that raises the question of like, what is an alien? Like, we're all just life forms of the universe.
Adam Schomer 1:06:30
What is next park? I got
Jayadev Woodford 1:06:33
to eat it up.
Well, let me so I asked all my guests this question. If somebody who didn't practice yoga came to you, and they asked you what is yoga? What would your answer be?
Adam Schomer 1:07:08
I would say what you want to know. And we'll start from there. And then like, Okay, look at their desire, look at their, what's driving them? And that'd be a good that's, that's yoga. Yeah, your whatever's driving you. That's the yoga and that's it, man like your mama. And that talks about the innate desire and all of us to have to want freedom. So to me, yoga is like that, that innate desire in all of us to want freedom, but it happening? Yeah, that's expressing itself.
Jayadev Woodford 1:07:44
Yeah, we talked about that earlier. The seed of sort of evolution planted in consciousness. Yeah.
Adam Schomer 1:07:48
Someone asked that, that. From now on. That's when I'm gonna say why why you're asking.
Jayadev Woodford 1:07:52
It's good. To turn it around a little bit. You can use that. Okay, I'll use it. Can you say?
Adam Schomer 1:07:58
Did I ask you enough question? I feel so selfish. I feel so selfish. Having not asked more of you and have it be more of a back and forth.
Jayadev Woodford 1:08:04
It's an interview, man. Is it?
Adam Schomer 1:08:09
working? Well? can it work? I'll have you on mine once I start. Okay.
Jayadev Woodford 1:08:12
Sounds good. What do you call it?
Adam Schomer 1:08:15
The philosophy of living like it? Yeah. Good. Yeah. How to put spirituality into actual living practice.
Jayadev Woodford 1:08:23
Beautiful. Yeah. Well, actually, on that point, do you want to talk about what's going on with you right now? You know, what's your vision? What are you working on? Anything is a plug anything.
Adam Schomer 1:08:33
I mean, I think the thing I love to plug is the road to Dharma, because I really love that, that show in that immersive, edgy edutainment. So wrote to Dharma Comm. You can watch three episodes for free. You can do three meditations for free. So I love plugging that because I think it's awesome. Right? I think it's okay to think it's awesome to. It's really quick. It's cool. I've seen it. It's wonderful. It's cool. I like it. Yeah, like, it's just you don't get to take these trips. Yeah, most people sort of take it with us,
Jayadev Woodford 1:09:01
especially now with COVID. And everything. I mean, it's nice to be able to travel like in that sense. And that sounds Yeah,
Adam Schomer 1:09:06
Himalayas to write to the sacred sites. What am I doing? I feel like the things I'm doing are taking a little step. So they're not so on the nose conscious. And then the underbelly. So some of the themes I'm looking at is freedom and escapism, both these these are like the themes and finding, I have a few projects I can't talk about, but that are interesting ways of expressing those themes that again, are entertaining or educational, that make bigger statements that to me are more actually more accessible to the masses, which probably answers the other question too, which is like kind of hiding the Trojan horse of the wisdom in something that looks like in a general sense. One of my projects is about aliens. So I can't go into how it how it works on these levels because it's really different take on it. But we're making the sizzle for All right now and for that series
Jayadev Woodford 1:10:01
exciting. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I think you can probably say one thing you're working on as a community kind of project, right? Like creating community.
Adam Schomer 1:10:09
Yes. The application. Yeah. Yeah, we're working on that. And then I think, I mean, I can talk about fantastic fungi, depending on when this comes out. But I'm helping the fantastic fungi people do a global summit for the sweats fungi global summit calm. So everything from health, to psychedelics, to mental health to food. But yeah, the app soon we'll talk about the other series, soon we'll talk about these things. And we wrote a direction it took a long time to come to its fruit, you know, like seven years or so right? Right to actually be done. So sometimes these more audacious projects, you got to be patient and just yeah, wait for the side. Wait for the season.
Jayadev Woodford 1:10:47
What's a good reminder that things take as long as they do, right?
Adam Schomer 1:10:50
That's true send out said that once when you distribute.
Jayadev Woodford 1:10:57
The mushrooms told me that thinks like, as long as Yeah, that's beautiful. You have a lot of exciting stuff coming. This will be this podcast will be out in a week or two. So yeah, plenty of time for people to check out the fantastic fun guy. I think that brings us full circle to the fungi. So meaning we started talking about earlier your experience with mushrooms.
Adam Schomer 1:11:19
That's why I said yes to that project. To help them do this summit was because mushrooms were part of me as a child, I felt like a child, right? Yeah. So when it comes back years later, and I have these other skills, like I go serve the mushrooms a little and that movement. 25 years late, yeah, 25 years later, it's kind of like acceptable, right? Now, this idea. Same thing, I did a film with the Native Americans, Lakota people called Women of the white buffalo. That project was brought to me as a producer to help. And I was super busy at the time, but I couldn't say no to that. That project and that theme, because I was brought up with a very strong love of Native Americans. My dad had instilled that in me. And also one of the guys that the Father is involved with a famous musician that helped me out with some songs on my first film, it's like of course I'll have to step in. So sometimes you know you just you no matter what, like for anyone out there like something feels right. Even though you're too busy. You just say yes. Like you just have to step in and you go, yeah, let me help with this thing with the fun guy read the Lakota Indian project. Yes, you got to do it. Somehow we make time.
Jayadev Woodford 1:12:27
Yeah, yeah. It's exciting and aligned. Just do it. Right. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, it's been you know, as always, it's great talking to you. I love Ed. Well, I love having you on the podcast because you're a great example of somebody who's spiritual but not ridiculous. You're, you're putting it out there. You're you're studying an example, you know, and the things you're working on are really affecting people. So thank you. So thank you so much.
Adam Schomer 1:12:51
My pleasure to be here. I love that you're doing this podcast because spiritualities isn't that ridiculous?
Jayadev Woodford 1:12:55
It's not It's the best. I
Adam Schomer 1:12:56
think you nailed it. It's not ridiculous. It's not It's ridiculous. to not have it right in your life, right? life would be ridiculous without these tools. Absolutely. That's what's gone. That's what's up dude. figured it out. We figured it out yet. Again. Life's ridiculous. Without spirituality.
Jayadev Woodford 1:13:14
Yeah, it's true. It's true. I think you have to experience it for so it can be a little bit of like a hurdle. Right? Sure. You know, it seems like a strange thing. You gotta you know, try it. Yeah, meditate. Just check it out. Check it out. Yeah, great. Well, I'll put all the things you mentioned in the show notes and links to your website and this random URL as well, Adam, it's been so great. Thank you so much.
