How To Be Spiritual But Not Ridiculous
This week on the podcast, I discuss discernment: What it is, why it’s important, how it can prevent ridiculousness, why that matters, and how to increase our discernment. As part of this discussion, I explore the Yog-Vedantic theory of mind and specific practices that can help us be more discerning, including self study, kriya, classical Tantrik practices, having a teacher you can trust, spiritual community, working with sacred plants, meditation, and good old psychotherapy, including psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.
One thing I didn’t say explicitly on the podcast is that a simple practice we could all adopt is learning how to fact check online. I’m sure we all have our own approach to doing this. But, if you’re looking for a good resource to send to friends and family, here’s one from LexisNexis.
The philosophy, cosmology and consciousness masters program I’m enrolled in at the California Institute of Integral Studies has the following goals:
To open our consciousness, through learning and imagination, to those creative and evolutionary energies suffusing the Earth, the Universe, and the deep psyche that will enable us to participate fully in the regeneration of human communities and their enveloping life systems.
To analyze the current devastation of planetary life and to strive to liberate ourselves and our communities from the underlying causes of alienation, consumerism, militarism, androcentrism, and unsustainable modes of life.
To draw from the deep wells of philosophical, spiritual, and religious wisdom together with other scholarly and scientific insights in order to bring forth a profound vision of a vibrant planetary era.
Other references from the episode:
Joanna Macy’s Active Hope and The Spiral of the Work That Reconnects
The full Daily Show / Jordan Klepper segment about MAGA + Gematria
An example of a discerning analysis of someone like Jordan Peterson that fails to offer a positive ethos
The podcast episode about gurus and a guru sex scandal
Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras
The Bhagavad Gita
Topics
Personal updates
What is discernment?
Why is discernment necessary?
Why is not being ridiculous so important?
Reducing suffering
Polishing the mirror
Measuring discernment
The discernment process
The yogic theory of mind
Forgiving ourselves
Regarding gurus
Sacred plant medicines
Spiritual community
Good old psychotherapy
Meditation
Tantrik practices
The power of devotion
Transcript
Jayadev Woodford 0:01
Namaste. I am recording this at 11:11 because it is a direct download from source, from my angels and light beings.
Jayadev Woodford 0:16
Wait, what was I just saying? Sorry, I don't know what came over me, I think I've been living in Los Angeles too long. Anyways, I'm here to talk about discernment. And what that means, why it's important, how to cultivate it, and how not to be ridiculous.
Jayadev Woodford 0:41
So I'm recording this episode here in Tulum. I'm in an apartment that's in a cool neighborhood: La Veleta. But it's actually in a very developing neighborhood in the sense that they're building a lot of things right now. And so I'm just laughing because behind me, they're building a building. So there's a lot of hammering going on. And that goes on all day, every day. And then there's a dog barking across the street pretty much constantly. There he is. And there's a lot of road noise. And there's these metal collectors that go by and make announcements. So I was trying to find the perfect time to record the podcast that was relatively quiet. But I think I'm just gonna go for it and we'll live with barking dogs and hammering and whatnot. I did figure out how to filter out the pool filter noise. So these are all, you know, ridiculous vacationing in Tulum problems. So hopefully it sounds okay. I just want you to know I care a lot about how the sounds for you my listener, so anyways...
Jayadev Woodford 2:05
Welcome to Spiritual But Not Ridiculous, a podcast that explores the world of spirituality from a grounded and clear eyed perspective. I'm your host Jayadev yoga teacher, Vedic Astrologer attorney and technologist.
Jayadev Woodford 2:57
Welcome to Season Two of the podcast. Today, I wanted to talk about discernment, what it is, why it's so important right now, and how to cultivate it. But first, a little update about me and what's going on in my life.
Jayadev Woodford 3:12
Since the last episode, a while back this year, I've enrolled in a master's program at the California Institute of integral Studies focusing on philosophy, cosmology and consciousness. So it's a very cool program. I'm going to talk about it for a minute. And I'm just so excited about what this means for the podcast. First of all, it's gonna, I think, generate a lot of new ideas for episodes, new guests, new discussions, new ideas, it's going to be amazing. So that's, that's the big news, I guess, you know, I'm also kind of moving right now. I'm in Tulum, Mexico, but I'm also moving to Venice, Venice Beach in California, in Los Angeles. So that's happening. And, you know, I think living in Los Angeles for this past year has also gotten me thinking about discernment for different reasons. So we'll get into that.
Jayadev Woodford 4:04
But yeah, I'm also launching launching a bunch of new offerings. I talked about some of those at the beginning of the episode. But you know, I've got my meditation course coming back again in October, which is going to be great — for four weeks, we really, really dive into the different aspects of meditation, the mantra aspect, the kriya aspect, that kind of thing. And then I'm offering spiritual mentorship, which is a more long-term program where we work together, on on your evolution through your astrology and using meditation and kriya, and all these other techniques. So you can find all that on the website, cosmic.diamonds. And then I'm also working on some training modules in mantra and kriya, and I'm working on a Dasha Mahavidya, classical Tantra wisdom, initiation that's going to be really powerful. So look for all that but you know, with with school Yeah, I just wanted to give you a sense for what is what I'm studying and what the ethos of the school is.
Jayadev Woodford 5:08
So this program, this philosophy, cosmology and consciousness program is inspired in part by Alfred North Whitehead's view of education and the university context, that the the function of the university is to enable the future to appear, first in thought, and then in action. And so I love that that's kind of the starting point for this program. And so all the faculty and students all sort of subscribe to three fundamental goals within that. The first one is to expand consciousness through learning and imagination, and, you know, different, different approaches. It's a very sort of interactive program in some ways. And the second goal is to analyze the current devastation of planetary life, and to liberate ourselves in our communities from the underlying causes of this devastation. And so I love this goal, because this is something I've been thinking about for years and trying to find a way in how I can best be of service in this way. And so this program, I think, will lead to a lot of ideas in that area. And so some of the causes that we're already talking about in the course, and some of the courses are include anthropocentrism, you know, like, sort of prioritizing the human over the nonhuman, the patriarchy, obviously, and capitalism, and the kind of the tyranny of reason that I've been talking about on the podcast as part of it, you know, this sort of mental ego, the way we think our worldview, all that stuff is kind of feeding into our current situation. So that's the second goal. The third goal of the program is to draw from the deep wells of philosophical and religious and spiritual wisdom, and scholarly and scientific insights, to bring forth a profound vision of a new planetary era. And so as you can tell, this program is very innovative and progressive and holistic, and I just couldn't be more excited to be in it.
Jayadev Woodford 7:03
Just to give you a sense, for some of the courses I'm taking right now, I'm taking one called Cosmos and Psyche that's based on the work of Rick Tarnas, primarily, and Stanislav Grof. And this course examines sort of, you know, the connection between the cosmos and individual soul and how archetypal astrology kind of plays into that. And then I'm also taking a course called The Great Turning, which looks at our current situation, in terms of our crisis, and the kind of it kind of breaks it down into three grand narratives. There's the Great Unraveling, which is kind of just a description of you know, how we all feel like, things are getting worse in a certain sense. And then the response to that, oftentimes, is business as usual, which is where everyone just kind of continues doing what they're doing, you know, working at some job making widgets, or whatever, because what else are you going to do. And then there's the third narrative, which is The Great Turning, which is a phrase that Joanna Macy has coined. And this is, you know, the creation, basically, of like, life sustaining societies, and cultures that are in harmony with the longer term interests of the wider Earth community. And, you know, it's kind of related to a concept that I've been talking about on the podcast a lot, which is this, this kind of oncoming consciousness or wisdom revolution. So it's very connected in that way. And what I love about this Great Turning is that we're reading a book called Active Hope, where we learn that hope is not something that you have as a result of the situation around you, but something that you can actively kind of put into the situation around you, in a sense, and so that that book is in part based on this, this system that Joanna and others have developed, called the spiral of the work that reconnects and it's a four stage spiral that goes around through these four stages repeatedly. And this four stages are coming from gratitude, honoring our pain for the world, very important stuff, seeing with new eyes, and going forth, and you know, being of service or being relevant in the world as a result of this product, this ongoing process. So it's a very action- oriented course very, there's a lot of exercises and sort of reflection and that kind of thing. So anyways, just to give you a sense for how amazing and powerful and, and just relevant this this program and some of these courses are to me right now and I think, to all of us really is how I feel.
Jayadev Woodford 9:58
Okay, so Let's talk about discernment. You know, I posted an Instagram reel a few days ago about this and how I was, I wasn't sure that it was a topic that people were interested in, or you know that it would be too dry or something, but, but I feel, I feel like it is interesting for a lot of people, and I got some good feedback. And so I'm going to try to keep this short. I know, I tend to go long on these episodes, and part of my intention for season two of the podcast is to have shorter episodes. Ideally, although I have a feeling this episode is probably going to be about an hour or so so, so hang in, there's a lot of good content here, hopefully, and I think you're gonna really like it. So my intention of talking about discernment primarily, today is to motivate you to practice or to think differently about your practice, but perhaps, and maybe practice more, you know, because my vision is to have discernment, kind of sweep the planet, like a positive pandemic. Not that I'm going to be the leader of that, or anything like that, but just that I want to inspire some more people to think about it and talk about it, and hopefully, increase the amount of discernment that's out there in the world. know, for me personally, yoga and plant medicine, are the two primary ways that I've been able to develop and refine my own discernment. And I want to share some of those experiences here, because I think they're relevant for everyone. So let's talk first about . . . Let's try to define or explain what I mean by discernment. On one level, discernment is simply being able to see and understand and recognize increasing values of truth. Now, that's a little abstract, right? So let's—how else can we define it? Well, discernment can be a way of being self aware enough to avoid projecting ego distortions, onto reality, onto situations onto people onto yourself. And it's sort of knowing intuitively, that something is true, because you are relatively free of things like craving and aversion, or having strong preferences. When you're in that state, which is kind of the state of yoga, then truth just kind of shimmers in front of you. So basically, you're just you're no longer projecting your personal preferences onto things. And so you can see things more clearly as they are. And so part of this process is being able to evaluate things without being critical or judgmental or dismissive. But seeing that some things do have greater values of truth. There's no good or bad, there's no more or less worthy, there's no, you know, sort of positive, negative in a certain sense, there's just more or less truth, right, I think we've seen this and we'll explore some examples. But this is what the kind of the idea I'm getting, you know, it's it is it's a very nuanced way of thinking, you know, it's not black and white. So, we're gonna have to be able to draw fine distinctions. For example, between like, sacred geometry and numerology, which are valid spiritual pursuits and approaches. And then this thing we see oftentimes of just seeing repeating numbers, right, which we'll get, we'll get into more, but you know, so it's just, it's like, we're being discriminating. We're being discerning in a way that's still allowing new information and still allowing us to evolve. Actually, I found an interesting definition in the dictionary. One dictionary that I've seen has this definition of discernment in Christian contexts, perception, in the absence of judgment, with a view to obtaining spiritual guidance and understanding. So I thought that was interesting, because that's a pretty good definition. So good job dictionary.
Jayadev Woodford 13:59
So why is discernment so necessary? I feel like, it's especially necessary right now, you know, but it's like, why am I talking about it? You know, why do we care? Why does it matter? And I feel like, on almost every episode of the podcast, I say something like, "this requires discernment or discernment is really important," but I never really unpack it, you know, so I thought I'd finally take the opportunity to talk about discernment.
Jayadev Woodford 14:29
First of all, I think if you look around, you can see that people everywhere are being taken in by misinformation and lies. We're kind of like swimming in a sea of information. And a lot of it is misinformation. And, you know, as you can see, in our current political situation, or pretty much anywhere, there's all this division because because everyone has their own set of facts, right. And it's like, I feel like in that, so many people are not thinking critically, they're just kind of you know, glomming on to one set of facts and then just like holding on as tightly as they can, right? We see this unfortunately too often with the alt-right or the far right in this country, in America. You've got people like Alex Jones and Infowars, Newsmax, OAN, Fox News, Tucker Carlson. And then Jordan Peterson and people like, you know, in a kind of self help world, Qanon conspiracy theories, all these things are symptoms of this problem, you have this lack of discernment and this this misinformation issue that we have. And yeah, I mean, I'm not trying to make it political. But unfortunately, the political right in America has made itself into the party of fear, ignorance, aversion, judgment, and authoritarianism. You know, and I think all of these are, are the opposite of discernment. In addition, I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos lately that sort of systematically debunk people like Jordan Peterson, and they're good examples of discernment. And the ways that discernment can come in, but then the problem with those videos, and the problem with that approach, is that they are still coming from this, like, pure reason. And they're letting their discernment kind of swallow itself, you know, so they're, they're pointing, they don't have a sort of overarching ethos, they're just kind of deconstructing things, and then there's nothing left to really hold on to. And so I hope in this episode to offer you, you know, not just a way of deconstructing things, but a discernment that is spiritual, and that still offers some evolution and positive sort of qualities. Okay, so, you know, not only do we see this misinformation in the news and in media, but during the pandemic, especially so many of my friends, spiritual friends, spiritual teachers, were taken in by conspiracy theories of different kinds. And, you know, I watched this happen, and I was a little surprised, because I always assumed that people who are sort of, especially spiritual teachers are, you know, discerning, and, of course, everyone has their own viewpoint. But I think conspiracy theories are a good example of where discernment is so necessary, and I'll talk about that in a little bit. But it's clear, it's clear to me as a society as a humanity, that we need to develop the ability to think for ourselves, you know, it's not easy. It's not, we're not taught how to do this, you know, nobody, nobody teaches us this in school, for example, I think maybe if you go to university for journalism, or I don't know, philosophy, or, you know, law school, for sure teaches you how to be how to be discerning in certain ways. And, you know, law school teaches you how to sort of think like a lawyer, which is what I learned when I went to law school, and, you know, definitely helped me but but again, it's an example of where there's a kind of thinking, where the skepticism and the criticism becomes like the overarching kind of mental model, you know, and you find yourself finding faults with everything. And I certainly found myself doing that as a lawyer. And that's part of why I left the law. And I felt like it was like, it was polluting my mind this, this kind of part, you know, finally parsing everything and being overly critical and judgmental, and all that so. So it's hard. Nobody teaches us how to be discerning in a healthy, balanced, holistic way.
Jayadev Woodford 18:38
Okay, so. So combating misinformation and conspiracy theories is one reason that is important to talk about. Another reason is that it's the antidote to being ridiculous, which is my whole thing, right? So what do I mean by that? Basically, when I say when I say ridiculous, I, I mostly mean spiritual bypassing, spiritual materialism, that kind of thing. And, you know, spiritual bypassing is where you subscribe to certain spiritual concepts, without embodying them, you know, it's all a concept. It's all kind of mental models, but but not no actual integration. Or it's like clinging on to the light very tightly and only wanting to be in the light and not doing any of the shadow work. You know, that's another form of bypassing. It's looking at maybe it's like looking at spiritual and going to spiritual places. Like me right now, I'm in Tulum. And, you know, just doing all that because it's cool and trendy, you know, like wearing a wide brim hat and a flowing shirt or whatever, you know, I mean, I'm wearing mala beads, you know, am I am I being ridiculous? I mean, it all depends on how you look at it, what your what your intention is, you know, what the purpose is behind it, you know, all these things, you know, the hats and the whatever, it's only ridiculous if there's no substance behind it, so hopefully, the content of what I'm saying? And hopefully the shakti of it is, is all that matters, it shouldn't be how I look or anything, you know. So, one way this manifests I see this in Los Angeles quite a bit, is you see signs and portents everywhere. This is part of the kind of spiritual bypassing, for example, this repeating numbers thing, which I encounter quite a bit in Los Angeles, people love saying, Oh, it's 11:11, or, you know, the address is 2222. That must mean something, you know, and everything is sort of imbued with meaning, which is, which is a nice intention and nice bhava, a nice way to be in the world, you know, finding meaning everywhere. But people see these repeating numbers as like messages from your angels and light beings and all this stuff and from source. And I don't know, I looked into it. I was curious, I looked into it. And there isn't really any, like, spiritual tradition underlying these repeating numbers. It seems like it's a late 20th century phenomenon. Maybe it started with this psychic, Uri Geller, but it's not clear. And I don't know, I find it really interesting and entertaining. And of course, like, I think one explanation is that there's only 10 digits in our system. And so it's just very, very common for them to repeat whether it's a time or an address or whatever, like, it's a very common thing. So yeah, actually, that reminds me of this app Gematria that the MAGA people and the alt-right people are really into now. Actually, let's, let's just watch this clip. This gives you some sense of it.
Unknown Speaker 21:33
Everything's coded and I've been learning Gematria. So what's Gematria? Can I pull my phone out for a second? Sure. Okay, so the call the gematria. And it's a calculator.
Jordan Klepper 21:43
Gematria is a mystic numeral logical key, and an app which allows believers to type in words and get back meaningful numbers
Unknown Speaker 21:51
and type it in the calculator. You get these numbers. And so Michael Jackson's last concert was this is it comes to 113.
Jordan Klepper 21:58
That means, do you I don't know what that means.
Unknown Speaker 22:01
So one through 13 means not true.
Jordan Klepper 22:05
So Michael Jackson, that wasn't his last concert. And he's alive. Michael Jackson. People were talking. It's Bin laden still alive. Are you doing math right now?
Unknown Speaker 22:17
I'm trying to remember his real name. Tim. Osama.
Jordan Klepper 22:21
Osama bin Laden.
Unknown Speaker 22:22
Yeah, Tim. Tim. Someone forgot his last name. He's him is not the most Saudi name. And he wasn't Saudi, from the CIA.
Jordan Klepper 22:31
How does Maga and Trump fit into all this?
Unknown Speaker 22:34
Well, Trump 88 Oh, me. I was a Kennedy 88.
Jordan Klepper 22:39
So they're the same person?
Unknown Speaker 22:41
I don't know. That's what Gematria says
Jordan Klepper 22:44
this. America is in a bad place.
Unknown Speaker 22:48
146
Jordan Klepper 22:49
What's 146 made? Let's go Brandon one voice, right. That means go Brandon's 140. So let's go brands 146. And so is America is in a bad place?
Unknown Speaker 23:00
Yes. Let's go Brandon. We want to connect those two. Well, we are connected. That is connected. It does feel connected, that I think feel good. Do you have goosebumps? Yeah, I'm getting goose
Jayadev Woodford 23:12
bumps. Yeah, so you can see me you can see with with this woman, there's a desire, I think it's desire, you know, to, to find some certainty and of what feels like a very uncertain world. You know, what I was saying earlier about us going through the great unraveling, people are really wanting to grasp on to some kind of explanation, some kind of certainty. And that can come from any source, you know, and I think it's also again, it's nuanced, because I think, for example, critics of something like astrology, might not see a difference there. You know, you might think, like, oh, people who are into astrology are doing the same thing. They're looking for some kind of certainty in a very uncertain world, but it doesn't, it's not real. But actually, astrology is, and this is where discernment comes in, in a different a different way. Right? So critics of these systems, they need to understand the system, they're criticizing first, you know, so anyways, I get it, I get it.
Jayadev Woodford 24:11
Being spiritual, is a form of kind of a form of rebellion in a certain sense in our world, you know, and so it means rejecting the mainstream oftentimes, and rejecting societal conditioning and rejecting the worldview of your parents, or whatever it is. And so when you do that, you're naturally needing to open yourself up to alternative viewpoints. And you start to realize that all of these things that are rejected by mainstream society are actually valid. And so then it becomes this kind of like, another form of black and white thinking where like, well, anything that's alternative must be true. You know, like anything that's rejected must be true becomes the litmus test. But actually, it's another it's another place where you need to exercise independent thinking and critical thinking and discernment.
Jayadev Woodford 24:55
So what's the big deal? Why is it so important to not be ridiculous? Well, first of all, there's nothing wrong with being ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with being any kind of way. There's no bad people. There's no lesser people, you know, everyone's doing the best they can. But I think it is important. I think there are immense benefits to discernment and not being ridiculous, in my framing of it anyways. You know, first of all, it it's a, it's an antidote to misinformation and conspiracy theories, like I've already talked about, but, but also, you know, it's a way of avoiding spiritual bypass. And there's all sorts of reasons to do that. And it's, once we get into, like, other ways of being and knowing, like, like intuition, for example, it's an important part of being intuitive. Because if you're not discerning, you will think that your desires are your intuition, you know, so you'll, you'll, you'll say, like, oh, I need to get a massage, you know, maybe you just want to have a massage. It's not an intuition. It's just a desire, you know. So, I think when you start talking about your intuition, you need to be discerning when it comes to these more subtle sort of ways of knowing. Another example is when you start interpreting astrology or tarot cards, or numerology, it's so essential in those practices to not be projecting your desires or your cravings and aversions or whatnot, you're conditioning on to what you're looking at right? Rick Tarnas in his book, Cosmos and Psyche makes this point, as you're practicing Astrology, it's so essential, you know, because you're dealing with archetypal forms and things that are less precise. And so doing this requires a self critical awareness, of unconscious tendencies towards, for example, narcissistic distortions, where random or peripheral events are transformed into signs from an egocentric universe. Like, like the repeating numbers I was talking about. So we need multiple faculties of cognition, you know, we need intuition, we need empirical ways of being rational ways of being emotional, relational, and symbolic. You know, there's so many different ways, but when it comes to moving in these different areas, we still need to bring the discernment with us. And so another way this can be can be helpful is as we as we go on the spiritual path, and we look for teachers, we look for guides, you know, this will help us to not sort of follow a false guru or teacher without integrity, or even in the worst case to join a cult. I mean, you know, you think about, like, how do people how do people join cults, you know, how to how to the people in Wild, Wild Country, you know, the Osho cult? How did they end up in that situation? Or even Bikram? Um, you know, or any of these called examples, you know, how do people NXIVM, you know, is another example, you see these people who see the documentary and you think, like, how do they how are they so easily duped? And, you know, I think obviously, the first thing is they're receiving some benefit, you know, whether it's evolution or some kind of transcendent, transcendent experience or something like that. But the problem is, they're getting these benefits, but then they're not questioning anything - they're just kind of surrendering and trusting completely, which is irrelevant at a certain point, but you need to, it needs to be it needs to be flavored with discernment. There's a way that you can trust too much. I talked about this on the episode about the guru sex scandal, a few episodes ago on in episode eight. And how Mariana Caplan talks about this, you know, there's sort of like, there's a way of trusting that's not complete, and more healthy. Yeah. So this is another, you know, it's a benefit of discernment is is not joining a cult basically. Or, you know, like I was saying earlier, not falling victim to conspiracy theories. I mean, I get it, you know, in terms of conspiracy theories, when it seems like the whole world has gone haywire. It's easier to think that you're powerless to change anything than it is to try to take action. So I get the appeal of a conspiracy theory. But if you think that a global cabal is drinking the blood of babies, and you know, secretly running the world, then maybe you should try to find some hard evidence of that first, you know,
Jayadev Woodford 29:44
another benefit of being discerning is that you experience less suffering, and you'll experience more joy for you and for everyone else, you know, so it's like, if you're a spiritual materialist, there, you're actually suffering more because even though it feels like it's all love and love A, you know, there's this unresolved kind of unexplored shadow, this is still there, sort of leaking out in all your interactions and all your experiences. And so this enjoyment is very, you know, very surface very superficial and very frail, you know, very conditional, whereas when you're discerning, and you're kind of, you're becoming more whole, than you're a lot more secure and stable, and your, your evolution, and, and your joy and your fulfillment and happiness. And you're authentic, this authentic state is then better for everyone for the collective. And then people take you more seriously too. I mean, it's important, you know, especially because part of my mission is to try to bring spirituality, like, to people who don't identify as spiritual. And I think part of that is making us seem, as spiritual people, like, seem more level headed, you know, and, and discerning. And so, you know, when you're, when you're, when you're discerning you, yeah, you don't turn people off, you know, intelligent people aren't turned off. People want to see that there's some intellect and some wisdom and their spirituality, I think, and that was the case for me. And when you're just learning, you then start to manifest in and cultivate a more authentic and beautiful spiritual community, you know, your Sangha is more authentic and deep, as well. And then you will you become more grounded and secure and whole, and yourself, and you evolve more quickly. Not that there's any hurry, there's no hurry to evolve. But you know, the more you evolve, the more you reduce your own suffering and the suffering of others. So there's so many benefits to being discerning. And, you know, there's an argument we'll get into this a little bit later. But there's an argument that being discerning is kind of, like yoga, you know, yoga is discernment in a certain way.
Jayadev Woodford 32:01
And it's also called polishing the mirror of our minds, it's another way to put us know, another phrase you hear in spiritual, you know, discussions is polishing the mirror of our minds, right, this is a good way to think about it. Because we can only perceive relative values of truth from our own state of consciousness, right. And so when the mirror of our mind is smudged, you know, is tarnished, then what it reflects the reality of the world that it reflects is going to be distorted. And so you know, if what we see and hear and experience is filtered by a relatively dense state of consciousness, then almost nothing is really seen or heard or understood, purely as it is. I think we've all experienced this, right? So part of what I'm talking about here is becoming like a spiritual scientist. This is something I've talked about in earlier episodes. But it's like we're examining all new information, all new theories with a certain kind of certain kind of skepticism that's tempered by a constant willingness to have your existing ideas and beliefs challenged. This is the kind of discernment that I'm talking about. It's observing, examining, testing and refining.
Jayadev Woodford 33:12
But of course, even scientists often fail at this crucial aspect of keeping an open mind. Because they become attached to whatever theory that they've been propounding, or whatever it is, it's only it's only natural. So you know, it's crucial to be self aware and to examine your own beliefs as well. It's very, it's a very nuanced process. So it's hard in terms of like, in terms of science and empiricism, you know, it's hard to objectively measure your state of discernment, right? It's a very subjective personal thing. It's not like Asana, where you're working towards Scorpion pose, and somebody else can say, like, Oh, your form is fantastic. And, you know, it looks great. You know, it's like, only you really know. I mean, there's maybe there's ways people can tell, you know, but it's like, how do you know, how do you know if you're being discerning? How do you know if you're being more discerning than not? Right? Well, there are ways to tell. One is that you're evolving without getting sidetracked by toxic people or deceptive people, gurus and all that other stuff I was talking about earlier. And you feel more confident about what you know, and what you believe is true. It's not just blind faith anymore. It's like it's been tested in the laboratory of your own awareness, right, and your own experience. So you feel more self reliant, more confident, more focused and clear. And then you fluctuate less. And again, your spiritual community starts to become more sattvic, you know, more elevated and you have integrity, you have spiritual integrity, where what you say and what you do are the same. That's integrity, you become very consistent and your speech and your action. Very transparent. Very direct. but also kind, you know, there's still kindness, there's still, you know, elevated conversation. There's still like lack of judgment. You're very accepting of other people, you know. So you're not like going around flaunting your discernment or, you know, brandishing your discernment against people or anything like that. So you're maintaining your compassion and you're open heartedness. Acceptance, loving awareness, you know, it's all there. I think, I think a really good way to test a level of discernment is like, Do you have a sense of humor? You know, are you able to laugh at yourself? You know, that really, that really shows a level of security and your own sort of knowledge and wisdom? You're relaxed about it, basically. Yeah, you know, you know, that you know, what, you know, and you know, why, you know, what, you know, and all that, right. It's not just because you heard it from some teacher. So you can joke about it. You know, it's not again, it's not brittle. It's a very solid wisdom. The wisdom that's generated by discernment is like, totally solid. But also adaptable, right? Maybe there's not good language for it?
Jayadev Woodford 36:30
What is the process? How do we become more discerning? I'll start by summarizing briefly, and then we'll go into some of the details. So it's this kind of self reinforcing spiral of yoga that I like to talk about. You know, it includes meditation, meditation is a huge part of cultivating discernment. But also there's this idea of connecting the intellect and refining the intellect that comes out of like Patanjali yoga sutras and the Bhagavad Gita and these ancient spiritual texts from the vedantic tradition. So within that there's split, yeah, which we'll talk about, there's like self study self awareness, there's studying these ancient texts can be a part of the process. And having a teacher who's wise, you know, a guru, perhaps, perhaps, again, we'll talk about complexities of that in a minute. There's having spiritual community as part of the process. And then there's, you know, working with plant medicine, potentially, or sacred plants. And a huge part in my experience of becoming more discerning is learning how to feel your feelings. Because in yoga, we talk about how it's basically like, the mind is actually the heart mind is like, one unit, one atomic unit. And that's because every thought has an emotional component. And every emotion has a thought associated with it. So you know, we'll talk about this more, but the more you're in touch with your feelings, the more you're letting them flow, the less they're being coming in and kind of coloring your your thinking and your discernment, discernment. So we're moving away from decisions that are driven by unconscious emotions, you know, and so some of the practices that can help with feeling your feelings are these kriyas that are part of the practice, I teach, Elemental Yoga, and plant medicine is very helpful in helping you feel your feelings. And then traditional psychotherapy too is very, very helpful in that way. So we'll talk about those two, in a few minutes. But yeah, we'll talk about Patanjali's Yoga Sutras for all the yoga teachers in the room, the nature of the mind, and how to release our conditioning, samskaras, and kleshas and all that. And yeah, I mean, one way to say this is that the process is basically just practicing what we call like full spectrum, holistic yoga, right. So it's not just Asana, but pranayama, meditation, kriya, and all the different sort of styles of yoga, so to speak to so it's not just Raja Yoga, you know, it's not just Asana, meditation, and all that. But there's Karma Yoga, being of selfless service in the world. There's bhakti yoga, devotional yoga. There's jñāna yoga, which is the yoga of wisdom, which is a lot of a lot of what we're talking about today. This, this episode is more on the jñāna yoga tradition. And then classical Tantra has a lot of practices that can help with discernment as well, the, the ancient tantric Yogi's from 1,000 years ago and Kashmir, thought long and hard about discernment and have a lot had a lot to say about it.
Jayadev Woodford 39:37
Let's talk about the theory of mind. It sounds a little bit kind of boring, right? But it's kind of cool. And it's an important sort of foundational framework, I think, for this discussion. So the first thing we learn in yoga, of course, hopefully you've all experienced this is that you're not your mind, right? You're so much more than your mind. And you still identifying as the mind you stop identifying as your thoughts, right? So the mind is just one sort of part of you. It's like a tool that you can use, but it's not you, right? The larger container is this citta, this pure consciousness that we are. And, you know, as Krishna tells Arjuna, in the Bhagavad Gita, because you have this mind, that's not you, but it's, it's in the toolbox, you can actually mask you can master the mind, that's what yoga is essentially is mastering the mind. But you can't be a master of the mind if you live entirely inside of the mind, right. So part of the process is this, this, this dis-identification, and then this this kind of expansive experience of your larger self. And so in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna is talking about three aspects of mind. There's Manas, buddhi, and ahamkara.
Jayadev Woodford 40:52
So Manas, in a Patanjali talks about this, too. So Manas is this, basically like the part of the mind, it's taking in information from the sensory organs, right, it's if the sponge of the mind it's it's taking information in. And then as it's processed by the buddhi, the second part, this information is then stored in short and long term memory. And so, the second piece of the mind is the buddhi, that is discrimination, quality of the mind or the discerning quality of the mind. And so the buddhi is kind of the crux of what we're talking about today, in a certain sense. And it comes from the root Buddha, you know, which, which is the same route where the word Buddha comes from. And so really, the Buddha, you know, is he was called the Buddha because he was supremely discerning, in a certain sense, you know, so, so the buddhi is this kind of discerning function of the mind. And so that's what we're kind of focusing on today. But the third part is the ahamkara, the ego, part of the mind, the sense of self, the kind of sense of the separate self. And the ego is a crucial part of this process, too. I mean, it's a whole other topic, but you know, this is like this kind of like, fictional in a way sense of yourself, that's kind of an accumulation of all your past experiences and your identity, and everything is all in this ahamkara. And it's, oftentimes the ego is coloring the booty, and the Manas, you know, it's coloring, our discernment, and our memories, and it's coloring, the way we take in information. So if our ego is not refined, is not corrected, then we can't see clearly, we can't take things in on an unfiltered way, you know, we can't, we can't truly be discerning, right. For example, if your identity, your ego identity is like a white supremacist, then you can be very educated. And you can, you know, you can be very discerning in a certain sense. But then there's a certain unexamined set of set of assumptions that are coming from this ego identity that you haven't looked at, right? And so this is creating, it's creating an obstruction to truly being whole. So you know, in yoga, we refine the booty and the Ankara. And that's what we'll talk about next. Okay, so that's the theory of mind. Now, we'll get into the nature of the mind the sense of like, the different types of thoughts and emotions and feelings and memories, right, so. So as we learn in Patanjali, Yoga Sutras, there are varieties, the second sutra is yogash citta vritti nirodhaha. And what that means is Yoga is the cessation of mental modifications, or the cessation of these vrittis. So these are just like, basically thoughts or disturbances in the mind. And so one way to look at that as the Yoga is the quieting of the mind, right? But also, it is the quieting of the mind process is happening by addressing these varieties, a certain kind of routine. And so there's a there's a kind of rarity, called a samskara. That is a big part of the problem in a certain way. So it's the samskaras that we're working with in this refinement process as we develop our discernment. Now samskara is basically like a mental impression that's stored in the subtle body, you know, because the mind is actually a part of this continuum, the subtle body and he's samskaras are like archetypal impressions on the on the mind. They're like memories of the past that have been kind of unprocessed like they're unnoticed by the, the awareness. And so they're, they're, you know, kind of behind the scenes influencing your discernment. They're, they're creating all these impulses and trains of thought that you're not in control of and impressions that do not fit into your sort of current view of yourself. So the samskaras are very powerful and very important to, to address. So part of yoga is making these samskaras conscious and then we can release them. And you can see why these samskaras are making it so we can't discern because of the there influencing our ability to do that from, you know, the unconscious basically. And then you know, our mind as we start to release these samskaras, our mind can then naturally become more quiet and still.
Jayadev Woodford 45:32
So that's samskaras; there's a certain kind of samskaara that Patanjali talks about called a klesha. And so Patanjali highlights these kleshas, because it's important to, you know, that the more we can think about them specifically in certain categories, the easier it is to let them go in a certain sense. So in sutra 2.3 Patanjali says, Avidya asmita raga dvesha abhiniveshah kleshaah. And so he's giving us a list of five kleshas, or types of samskaras. So the first one is avidya, which is just ignorance or lack of wisdom. And this is a lot of what we're talking about in terms of discernment, and Patanjali talks about how it's the root cause of a lot of suffering this avidya, and through discernment, we can start to, to let go of avidya. And this, this ignorance in this context can include confusing the mind with the unconscious or suffering with happiness, or, you know, a guru as a, as a teacher, or the impermanent is permanent, you know, it's all these different ways that we confuse things, right. And so, this is one type of klesha, the one type of samskara that we start to, to directly address, right, this is ignorance. And then the second and third klesha are craving and aversion, you know, raga and dvesha. So, you can see how, with craving and aversion, you know, you are not discerning, because you're like, oh, I don't like this. And so I'm going to push it away, or, you know, I want that is I'm going to bring it closer, but it's clouding your judgment, because in the grand scheme, you should not be doing that. Like, this is why, you know, classic example would be like, falling into old patterns in terms of romantic relationships, let's say, you know, so you're, you know, you're sort of falling into these things to do desire, but you're forgetting that you have this pattern, you know, that you need to address and that sort of thing. So these are other places. And then asmita, is the fourth klesha. And this is identification with the ego, which we already touched on, you know, this, this ego, this collection of like self images, that are kind of a fictional thing, you know, so it's like, we don't want to be attached to a story about ourselves. It's this contraction of our larger being that we're, you know, wanting to let go, right? This is related to the fifth klesha, which is Abhiniveśah. And this is like clinging to our way of life, essentially, you know, it's, it's, like, holding tightly to our current identity, and so that when new situations present themselves, we don't see them clearly. Because it's unknown, you know, and we're wanting to hold on to the, to the known. And so that's another version here, you know, so it's like, when we go deep in yoga, whether it's a kriya or meditation, or what have you, or plant medicine, then we burn through these kleshas, we burn through these samskaras, and we prevent new ones from forming, too. So this is the process we're basically talking about in more detail.
Jayadev Woodford 48:47
Just a couple more, a couple more examples from the Yoga Sutras that are helpful. In sutra 1.7 Patanjali talks about this thing he calls basically correcting the intellect. And he says, This arises from, you know, direct perception from the state of yoga, and from reliable sources. And, you know, when he says direct perception, I think part of what he's getting at is like, we're more conscious and aware of what we're exposing ourselves to. So we want to in life, we want to think about, you know, the kinds of information the kinds of people the kinds of situations that we're exposing ourselves to, because the things that we occupy our mind and our awareness most consistently become our consciousness. And so, you know, we don't want to watch a lot of reality TV perhaps, or a lot of 24 hour news channels, that kind of thing. Of course, you know, if you want to have guilty pleasures, or you know, mindless entertainment, that's fine, but just be aware, I think of what you're exposing your awareness to. And then the state of yoga, you know, your experience arises directly out of your state of consciousness. So the more more that we're practicing yoga, and having the experience of yoga, you know, which is basically unity, the more we're starting to have that experience that's coloring our awareness. And that's how helping us to correct the intellect. And then, again, reliable sources, he means ancient texts, rely on reliable teachers with it with integrity, spiritual community, and that kind of thing.
Jayadev Woodford 50:21
I guess the last thing I'll say about Patanjali, there's a lot to say about Patanjali Yoga Sutras, one of the niyamas and sutra, 2.32. And other sutras is what yeah, this is this is self study. And here, he's telling us about more about this, this new Yama. And he's saying this is one of the limbs of yoga, right. And without this ability to basically turn our discernment back onto ourselves, we can fall into this trap of thinking that we're discerning. But that's actually an identity structure that we're creating instead. So it's very important to turn the light of our awareness and our discernment back onto ourselves. There's no sometimes the only way to do this reliably, is to have a teacher who can point you to where your blind spots are. So let's talk about that in a minute. But the other ways we can do this is through just contemplation. Just you know, reflection, self observation over time, you know, self practice, that kind of thing. It's this capacity to observe yourself, without judging or analyzing without applauding yourself, or critiquing yourself, you're just observing just neutral, the more you can do that, I think the more you start to develop your discernment as well. It's a kind of self honesty. Because we want to avoid not admitting things to ourselves, we want to start admitting things to ourselves, even if it hurts, right? Or it might bruise the ego. And I think part of this process is just like forgiving ourselves, and being soft with ourselves. This is part of this process of being self aware, I think. It's like making space in our lives. For just self acceptance, and, and self love. You know, I talked about it when I teach meditation, I talked about how, in a way, meditation is just this practice of fully accepting yourself. You know, I think that's, that's, I think, a big part of the journey here. Krishna talks about this in the Bhagavad Gita, you know, he talks about the benefits of, of self study and and cultivating this like Sattvic state basically, you know, moving beyond the ego. And so in the Bhagavad Gita, in a sense, Krishna is teaching Arjuna, how to master his mind. And discernment is a huge part of it.
Jayadev Woodford 53:07
In terms of gurus, it's a big topic. And again, I refer you to Episode Eight of the podcast. But I personally have immensely benefited from the ways that different teachers of mine have corrected my intellect, you know, have have helped me to see the blind spots. And I really feel like I wouldn't have seen those things without that person's help. So this is a it's a huge asset, if you can find a teacher that is wise and has integrity. I mean, there's no replacing that really.
Jayadev Woodford 53:50
Yeah. I mean, in one sense, this is the whole purpose of a guru is to correct your intellect and to give you practices for doing that. But yeah, there's risks, you know, you might have somebody who's trapped in some kind of ego identity, or doesn't have integrity or using students or taking advantage of people, you know, all that stuff. So it's complicated. But just to give one example of like, a simple way, I think I've talked about this before, but I was in India, I was living at the ashram at one point, and I was training teachers and, and I had this situation where I was, I was training some, some students in a class setting. And some other teachers came in the room and started practicing asana and kriya in the back of the room. And it was very distracting, and very disruptive. And so I, you know, asked them to leave and everything, but I went around for a couple of days, sort of waiting for them to apologize, and they never did you know, so I went to my teacher and I said, when is it appropriate to expect an apology? And he kind of laughed and he said, "Never." And I was like, oh, yeah, that is true. And it's just funny because the role of a teacher is almost like to point out things you already kind of know, but just need someone else to say. So you know, if you can find a teacher, it's definitely hard. It's in some ways it's like harder than finding, finding a good therapist. And that's why people like Terence McKenna, who I know I've quoted extensively on the podcast, but you know, Terence McKenna, at one point said, "Follow plants, not gurus." And I think there's, there's some wisdom in that. And let's talk about plants then. So, you know, some of my friends think that plants are the, ultimately the best way to cultivate discernment, and I don't disagree, I think, especially Ayahuasca or these sacred plants that can be used in a ceremonial setting, are immensely helpful for for cultivating discernment. I mean, they help you to see your own blind spots to like a teacher would, in my experience, and in these ceremonies, you know, like, your samskaras, are bubbling to the surface, and you're releasing them, basically, you know, you see all your conditioning, and you see all these unprocessed thoughts and emotions, and you're able to sort of face them in a way that's in a container that's very safe, and very healing. And, as a result, ignorance and fear, and an indirect knowledge are all burned away, and we get in touch with our emotional body and our intuition, and we start to tune into our higher self and we learn to listen, you know, and yeah, it's like a very effective form of like svadhyaya, or, yeah, burning through these samskaras. And so what's happening, I think, is that our higher self or, or the grandmother, or the cosmos, or spirit, or what have you, bringing all these unprocessed samskaras to the surface, and you're helping you to like release or integrate them. And then the shaman or curandero, the vegetalista is there, you know, as part of the process, too. So it's like, not just the plants, but it's like, it's the shaman, it's the icaros that they're seeing the, it all works together, to serve as a kind of mirror, an intellect correction device, in a more subtle way, like with the ego is especially like, for example, it's like the ideal form of a guru in a way because you might be having an energetic experience, and the, the shamans are trained to pick up on that. So they'll, they'll tune in, and they'll they'll see, you know, in a sense that you're having an experience of releasing something, and then they'll sing an icaro that's designed to, you know, maybe, like exacerbate it, push it, you know, intensify it and then get it out. Right, and then to soothe as well. So, for example, I had the experience once where I was dealing with some childhood trauma. And the shaman came into the room and said, "Hey, I was just singing this icaro for metabolizing childhood trauma, you know, would you like to hear it?" You know? And I said, "Yes," you know, and it was like, Yeah, and it was so perfect. And so it's like, yeah, it's like, in a way these ceremonial, sacred plant experiences can be like, like working with a guru. But like, even better, right? Without all the guru games. So plant medicine, it's awesome.
Jayadev Woodford 58:19
And then, you know, and I think like I touched on before, the spiritual community—Sangha is, it's like having a guru in a certain way, in the sense that it's, you know, you have people who you trust and feel safe with, and they're all walking on the path with you. And they can gently and gracefully call you out, when you're deceiving yourself, they can point out your blind spots. I mean, they might, you know, individually, they might not be as wise as so called guru, but collectively, I think they would be you know, and yeah, and a sangha, a spiritual community is not fraught with all these power dynamics, and sex scandals and all this stuff, right. And the extent to which you might be might be disappointed in one person doesn't overwhelm your whole experience. So you want to find spiritual community that can provide the right balance of support, and the correction and intellect. A community where people are honest and direct, but loving and nurturing and caring, and, and practicing. You want a community where people are practicing.
Jayadev Woodford 59:23
So it's been nice during the pandemic, to have more online community where we can do this together. But it's also good, I think, especially in this situation, in terms of like discernment. It can be good to be together in person as well. And I'm looking forward to doing that more often. It's part of why I moved to Los Angeles, you know, I'm, I'm trying to cultivate several different communities and build community in certain ways. And so, so yeah, I find increasingly that community is one of the most essential pieces to helping with this process. And I touched on this before about therapy, traditional psychotherapy can be immensely helpful for cultivating discernment in the sense that that's another another example where you're getting sort of like unfiltered, unbiased feedback. But it is hard to find a good therapist, I got lucky in the past, and I worked with a therapist for years. And it was amazing and immensely helpful. But, you know, it's not always that easy. And it's a very slow process. It doesn't offer any practices or any experiential things that can help you kind of kind of move through some scar or that kind of thing. Although we're in a kind of very, you know, exciting time of this renaissance of entheogenic. You know, psychedelic assisted therapy. So, definitely seek that out. I haven't tried that myself. But maybe that's good. Another great option, I think it must be right. And then in terms of just to bring it all back, you know, in terms of yogic practices, again, meditation is one of the most essential practices for cultivating discernment. It's a process of going deeper into yourself into into silence, into a space where the mind can oftentimes be naturally corrected, or maybe have samskaras come up, you know, I certainly have had meditations where things come up, I try for like, maybe the whole time, you know, that kind of thing. And so that can be a setting where the intellect is naturally corrected, you might start to see you become more self aware through meditation, and then, you know, thoughts that are based on incorrect knowledge can be let go of. So, you know, meditation is another way of becoming more sattvic, you know, and Krishna talks about how the sattvic state is a state of being discerning. And, yeah, I mean, I'm offering again, I'm offering my four week meditation course in October. So check that out, I offer it a roughly once every season or at least three times a year. So look for that, cosmic.diamond/meditate. And then there are some amazingly powerful tantric practices, including, for example, there's a Dasha mahavidya Matangi who, her primary benefit or like primary yeah, like I said, he is, is correcting the intellect, you know. And so, you know, that's another another example. I mean, I'm hoping to offer a Dasha mahavidya tantric wisdom goddess initiation later this year or next year. So look for that, too. And I'll be sharing more of that soon. But yeah, there's there's these visualization and mantra practices that come from ancient India. And then devotion I think devotion and kind of a bhakti yoga is very effective because it's opening you up to the intelligence of the cosmos. You know, part of this devotional quality is like you're opening yourself to other forms of sort of intelligence from nature. And, you know, you're through that process, you're identifying less with the mind exclusively. And so, you know, examples of devotional practices can be sacred rituals, puja, aarti. These these other bhakti practices, you know, Kirtan, chanting the names of gods and goddesses, you know, that kind of thing. So, devotion very effective as well. And then, there's a lot of kriyas in our tradition that are great for directing the intellect as well. There's, for example, Maha Shakti kriya, which is where we're working with the three primary forms of Shakti, the will, the wisdom and the action, kind of Shakti, very effective for this Garuda kriya, where we're refining our intuition and our intellect. There's dream piercer kriya, where we're piercing through our illusions, you know, and it goes on and on from there, but kriya, very effective for cultivating discernment, and also feeling our feelings, as we talked about before. So, that's discernment. And I know I went on for a while there, but hopefully, it was useful and interesting.
Jayadev Woodford 1:04:00
You know, I just wanted to summarize, I just, I just think it's a it's a muscle that we can exercise. And I think people don't like focus on it enough, or we don't talk about it enough, specifically. And you know, if you're lucky, it's a byproduct of your your own spiritual practices. But I think there's a benefit to really focusing on it as a practice. So hopefully, this discussion provided some sattvic food for elevated thought and some motivation to recommit to certain practices. Or maybe it inspires you to go work with plant medicine or to find a therapist who's offering sacred Sacred plants as part of their therapeutic process. Or maybe it's motivating you to find spiritual community or even to seek out a teacher you know, they are out there, I believe it. So, so yeah, so hopefully, you know, discernment can help you become more solid and yourself more grounded in your spirituality, and, ultimately less ridiculous So thank you for listening. If you have any thoughts or comments about this, please you know you can email me jayadev@cosmic.diamonds. You can message me on Instagram at @kriya.guy. You can join my cosmic collective which is on the website, cosmic.diamonds and if you liked the podcast please review it on Apple podcasts. Thank you so much. Hari om. I'll see you next time.
